John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

For discussion of series 10 of Doctor Who starring Peter Capaldi

Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Tobias Vaughan » Mon May 08, 2017 10:17 am

shuzbot wrote:Yeah, I would even go as far as to say it was specifically Missy from the Pop Goes the Weasel music that was played at one point. Simm's Master was always a bit zany but Missy was much more childishly silly at times.

I like your reasoning and am persuaded that it is indeed the missy version
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby thecypher » Tue May 09, 2017 3:05 pm

shuzbot wrote:
Allons-y wrote:... maybe they could even use some clever effects to bring back Delgado


I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby ericthehalfabee » Tue May 09, 2017 4:06 pm

thecypher wrote:
shuzbot wrote:
Allons-y wrote:... maybe they could even use some clever effects to bring back Delgado


I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:


The BBC managed better than ILM in the battle of the melty faces with Raiders of the Lost Ark versus Dragonfire :lol:
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby thecypher » Tue May 09, 2017 5:56 pm

ericthehalfabee wrote:
thecypher wrote:
shuzbot wrote:
Allons-y wrote:... maybe they could even use some clever effects to bring back Delgado


I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:


The BBC managed better than ILM in the battle of the melty faces with Raiders of the Lost Ark versus Dragonfire :lol:


Unfortunately, I ain't seen Dragonfire. Definitely seen Raiders though...god, that scene is horrific :lol:
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Allons-y » Wed May 10, 2017 12:28 pm

thecypher wrote:
shuzbot wrote:
Allons-y wrote:... maybe they could even use some clever effects to bring back Delgado


I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:

I'm not suggesting Cushing-level technological trickery. Rather a shadowy stand in whose face you never see, and a sound-a-like providing shadowy instructions to the other Masters or something cheap and yet effective like that.
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby thecypher » Wed May 10, 2017 5:41 pm

Allons-y wrote:
thecypher wrote:
shuzbot wrote:
Allons-y wrote:... maybe they could even use some clever effects to bring back Delgado


I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:

I'm not suggesting Cushing-level technological trickery. Rather a shadowy stand in whose face you never see, and a sound-a-like providing shadowy instructions to the other Masters or something cheap and yet effective like that.


Oh right, like when they CGI'd all the Doctors at the end of TDOTD and when they've included stand-ins in episodes like Name and Witch's Familiar?

I guess that could work, and would certainly be a cheap way of doing it...
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Allons-y » Thu May 11, 2017 12:59 pm

thecypher wrote:
Allons-y wrote:
thecypher wrote:
shuzbot wrote:
I really hope not. They may get the voice and appearance roughly right but they wouldn't have the charisma. Rogue One wasn't perfect and they had a much bigger budget.


I think it should be noted that the technology that brought Peter Cushing back in Rogue One is relatively new, and Industrial Light & Magic had the funding and expertise in order to do this. The most we could expect from the BBC is a piece of clay, with Roger's head printed off and stuck to the top of it :lol:

I'm not suggesting Cushing-level technological trickery. Rather a shadowy stand in whose face you never see, and a sound-a-like providing shadowy instructions to the other Masters or something cheap and yet effective like that.


Oh right, like when they CGI'd all the Doctors at the end of TDOTD and when they've included stand-ins in episodes like Name and Witch's Familiar?

I guess that could work, and would certainly be a cheap way of doing it...

Yeah something like that, like in Name
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Tobias Vaughan » Fri May 12, 2017 8:53 pm

thecypher wrote:
Unfortunately, I ain't seen Dragonfire. Definitely seen Raiders though...god, that scene is horrific :lol:
Dragonfire is one of those McCoys that could have been so good but then they bang in the hanging from an umbrella scared of a five foot drop or the cockney no mark who cant act in a bomber jacket just shrieking 'professor' and 'ace' and it all falls apart, shame chance missed.
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Tobias Vaughan » Fri May 12, 2017 8:58 pm

OK here's my nudge nudge, wink wink, ITK conspiracy theory about Simm.

Chibnall wants Smith back as the Doctor and the way to do it, he feels, is to do a multi master, multi Doctor story where some how both revert back to previous incarnations at the end of capaldi's bow out and chibs takes over and GERONIMO!!!


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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby paulhickling » Mon May 22, 2017 3:26 pm

Tobias Vaughan wrote:OK here's my nudge nudge, wink wink, ITK conspiracy theory about Simm.

Chibnall wants Smith back as the Doctor and the way to do it, he feels, is to do a multi master, multi Doctor story where some how both revert back to previous incarnations at the end of capaldi's bow out and chibs takes over and GERONIMO!!!


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Oddly enough though I've often wondered about degeneration. We don't know how, why and where the different incarnations of a Time Lord come from. I mean are they some sort of things stored somewhere like the Matrix where a face/body is selected somehow and pressed into action? Does it mean that a Time Lord can also revert back to a previous likeness? Something like that would explain how they have had selection processes in the past (however much such scenes may have been designed purely to amuse script-wise), as with the end of War Games and Romana's regen.

Of course some would argue that degenerating would do exactly the reverse of advancing the series.
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby thecypher » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:19 pm

paulhickling wrote:
Tobias Vaughan wrote:OK here's my nudge nudge, wink wink, ITK conspiracy theory about Simm.

Chibnall wants Smith back as the Doctor and the way to do it, he feels, is to do a multi master, multi Doctor story where some how both revert back to previous incarnations at the end of capaldi's bow out and chibs takes over and GERONIMO!!!


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Oddly enough though I've often wondered about degeneration. We don't know how, why and where the different incarnations of a Time Lord come from. I mean are they some sort of things stored somewhere like the Matrix where a face/body is selected somehow and pressed into action? Does it mean that a Time Lord can also revert back to a previous likeness? Something like that would explain how they have had selection processes in the past (however much such scenes may have been designed purely to amuse script-wise), as with the end of War Games and Romana's regen.

Of course some would argue that degenerating would do exactly the reverse of advancing the series.


Doctor Who was, and still is, very much a work in progress. In the classic series, they were able to fiddle around a lot with the idea of regeneration. Romana was able to go through several bodies quite quickly, while The Master "degenerated" into some sticky guy with big eyes. On your point about where the incarnations come from, I like to think they are invented in The Doctor's head. I have no doubt that perhaps there is some sort of technological involvement perhaps, or a biological master key - given the Time Lords gave the the Second Doctor a choice of bodies and forced him to regenerate. The Twelfth Doctor himself stated that his face was based on the ancient Roman Caecilius (though this may be Moffat's attempt to explain Capaldi's previous appearance in Doctor Who), and the Sixth Doctor looks suspiciously like a Time Lord he had previously encountered on Gallifrey...

It's like you say - the writers could have have inputted these various scenes for the purposes of amusement alone, and as such reaching for an in-universe answer is rather clutching at straws - but RTD and Moffat have also enhanced upon the idea of regeneration, what with 10 regenerating but not really, The Corsair and The Master regenerating into women and the Twelfth Doctor blatantly faking a regeneration.

In the classic days, things weren't enhanced upon or explained enough - nowadays, they take things a little too far.

Where do we draw the line?
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby LizR » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 pm

thecypher wrote:In the classic days, things weren't enhanced upon or explained enough - nowadays, they take things a little too far.

Where do we draw the line?

Just have enough exposition that the audience knows what's happening. And "Show don't tell" as much as possible.
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Allons-y » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:13 am

And he had the proper Master "rubbish beard"!
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby mr borusa » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:55 pm

ericthehalfabee wrote:
space time element wrote:Yes I know this is complete fantasy, but wouldn't it be nice to have the return of Tenth Planet 4 announced at the end of the new episode tomorrow night? Anyway, back to cold, harsh reality now.....


I think it's more realistic to hope that tomorrow night's episode isn't complete sh*te, and even that's a long shot.

Baby steps.



Half expecting the Simm's Master to snog Missy in true moffat style. Hold on, their the same person?
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby Tobias Vaughan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:47 am

paulhickling wrote:
Tobias Vaughan wrote:OK here's my nudge nudge, wink wink, ITK conspiracy theory about Simm.

Chibnall wants Smith back as the Doctor and the way to do it, he feels, is to do a multi master, multi Doctor story where some how both revert back to previous incarnations at the end of capaldi's bow out and chibs takes over and GERONIMO!!!


Spoiler: Toggle
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Oddly enough though I've often wondered about degeneration. We don't know how, why and where the different incarnations of a Time Lord come from. I mean are they some sort of things stored somewhere like the Matrix where a face/body is selected somehow and pressed into action? Does it mean that a Time Lord can also revert back to a previous likeness? Something like that would explain how they have had selection processes in the past (however much such scenes may have been designed purely to amuse script-wise), as with the end of War Games and Romana's regen.

Of course some would argue that degenerating would do exactly the reverse of advancing the series.
interesting... like a curator revisiting an old favourite at 50 eh?
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Re: John Simm back as the Master...[Possibly Spoilery]

Postby thecypher » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:23 pm

mr borusa wrote:
ericthehalfabee wrote:
space time element wrote:Yes I know this is complete fantasy, but wouldn't it be nice to have the return of Tenth Planet 4 announced at the end of the new episode tomorrow night? Anyway, back to cold, harsh reality now.....


I think it's more realistic to hope that tomorrow night's episode isn't complete sh*te, and even that's a long shot.

Baby steps.



Half expecting the Simm's Master to snog Missy in true moffat style. Hold on, their the same person?


Well, you were sort of right..
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