Rate "Thin Ice"

For discussion of series 10 of Doctor Who starring Peter Capaldi

Rate "Thin Ice"

10
5
5%
9
4
4%
8
24
24%
7
22
22%
6
16
16%
5
4
4%
4
5
5%
3
6
6%
2
3
3%
1
10
10%
 
Total votes: 99
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'teleportNOW!'
 
 
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oldschool wrote:
cyberlad wrote:Like I give a f*ck what the mail says. I imagine what upset the mail and one or two round here was upset by the doctor punching a racist. The fact that an episode that states the uncontroversial view that slavery and racism is bad is seen as out of order shows that right-wing fans and newspapers are determine to shut down any alternative viewpoint.
We don't need Moffat to enlighten us on the wrongs of the slave trade though I wonder what he gas got planned as his going away present ? Perhaps the Cybermen chatting each other up at the local Mondasian same sex discotheque or Hartnell swearing and pondering the evil of Tommy Robinson and his beer swilling chums.
I suppose you thought The Romans was ridiculous too for showing how bad slavery was? :lol:
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I thought it was surprisingly quite enjoyable.

The relationship between the Doctor and Bill is actually being written pretty well so far and I liked their conversation about how many people the Doctor has seen die/killed. I think this was probably the best take on Twelve's very pragmatic approach to death.

I liked that the main baddie was just a human instead of yet another alien hiding out on Earth.

Sure, they could've explained more about the creature, but you can only do so much with the 45 minute episode format and in general I think the story pacing has been done relatively well this series.

I can see that a few people have bristled at the "whitewash" line (as I knew some would), but whatever. There's been nothing that's made me cringe as much as having the Doctor playing a guitar on top of a tank in 12th century England yet this series.

My initial impression is something like 7/10.
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cyberlad wrote:
LizR wrote:
cyberlad wrote:Like I give a f*ck what the mail says. I imagine what upset the mail and one or two round here was upset by the doctor punching a racist. The fact that an episode that states the uncontroversial view that slavery and racism is bad is seen as out of order shows that right-wing fans and newspapers are determine to shut down any alternative viewpoint.
I think the objections come when the message overshadows, interrupts or replaces the story. I'm happy to see a political message in a story if it's delivered via "show, don't tell".

Such as when the Doctor punched Lord Whatsit. That showed him (and us) what he thought - easily worth 1000 words!
Except it didn't so it's a moot point.
Well, it was a bit over-egged - they went out of their way to make out that he didn't care, had a different perspective, etc - then had him hit the guy, which, for me at least, showed in no uncertain terms that he wasn't happy with him arranging for children to become fish food. Since I've been banging on about how NewWho should do more "show ,don't tell" since about 2005, I applaud when they, as it were, make a good fist of doing so.
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communiquesfromm wrote: ((LOVED THIN ICE! SO MUCH! Especially how you got that whitewashing moment in! Also have questions! Like; was there a temptation to make a stronger reference to 11 & River's date to that same Frost Fair? Or would that have taken too much away from *this* story?))
Sarah Dollard on Tumbler wrote:Thank you! Very glad you enjoyed it. ◕ ◡ ◕ I wrote a reference to the birthday date with River but it got cut. It came in the montage sequence on the ice at the start of the episode when Bill is running around trying everything. She twigs that the Doctor has been to the frost fair before and he replies, “Oh yes. A few times.” A stunned Bill absorbs that and we cut to:

Image

The scene might have actually been filmed (not sure) but I do understand why it was cut. You said it yourself - the important thing here is to focus on the present-day story. A mention of River doesn’t move the plot forward, or even advance Bill’s understanding of the Doctor to a significant degree, especially compared to the more solemn things she comes to understand about his past just minutes later.

There might even be another reason it was cut. Perhaps Steven decided Bill should learn about River in some other way further into the series. If not, then if you want to you can always extrapolate from the Doctor’s “Oh yes. A few times”, and assume that Twelve took the opportunity to tell Bill about his wife in between scenes.
http://carrionlaughing.tumblr.com/post/ ... ow-you-got
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There are now quite a few Americans that think that British people put coffee in their tea on GB.
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These people are quite clearly idiots, but as they are American that's largely a given.
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8/10 for me. Definitely a cracking episode but lacked a certain something to rate it a classic. Was definitely the best new tv episode i've seen in a while (till i saw the latest Better Call Saul).

FYI The Doctor's punch was more for comedic value than anything else, it hardly compares to The Third Doctor throttling Stalhman to give him back the micro circuit in tes of out of character behavior.

Pearl again stole the show (no bad thing either). Phenomenonal talent. I have noticed fans who have been unhappy with the show for a few years, are starting to enjoy the enjoy again, in part to Pearl.

Makes me think that the casting of the companion (s) is just as important than that of The Doctor's.
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shuzbot wrote:
communiquesfromm wrote: ((LOVED THIN ICE! SO MUCH! Especially how you got that whitewashing moment in! Also have questions! Like; was there a temptation to make a stronger reference to 11 & River's date to that same Frost Fair? Or would that have taken too much away from *this* story?))
Sarah Dollard on Tumbler wrote:Thank you! Very glad you enjoyed it. ◕ ◡ ◕ I wrote a reference to the birthday date with River but it got cut. It came in the montage sequence on the ice at the start of the episode when Bill is running around trying everything. She twigs that the Doctor has been to the frost fair before and he replies, “Oh yes. A few times.” A stunned Bill absorbs that and we cut to:

Image

The scene might have actually been filmed (not sure) but I do understand why it was cut. You said it yourself - the important thing here is to focus on the present-day story. A mention of River doesn’t move the plot forward, or even advance Bill’s understanding of the Doctor to a significant degree, especially compared to the more solemn things she comes to understand about his past just minutes later.

There might even be another reason it was cut. Perhaps Steven decided Bill should learn about River in some other way further into the series. If not, then if you want to you can always extrapolate from the Doctor’s “Oh yes. A few times”, and assume that Twelve took the opportunity to tell Bill about his wife in between scenes.
http://carrionlaughing.tumblr.com/post/ ... ow-you-got
....I do hope Ms Dollard never makes the disquieting connection between the show getting accused (by the usual suspects) of 'sexism' a couple of years ago because all the writers at the time were male and her rapid appointment/commissioning soon after....

For if she should perilously embrace a modicum of introspection over her good fortune, all manner of self-doubt would likely manifest as a consequence....

Personally I've now seen two of her below average efforts and have yet to be convinced that my incorrigible (yet pertinent) cynicism is unwarranted. :(
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During one scene with the orphans, the Doctor reads them "The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb" from Heinrich Hoffmann's Struwwelpeter, which would not actually be published until 1845.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_Ice_ ... _reception
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shuzbot wrote:During one scene with the orphans, the Doctor reads them "The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb" from Heinrich Hoffmann's Struwwelpeter, which would not actually be published until 1845.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_Ice_ ... _reception
Well, that's just an anachronism too far! :evil:

Oh wait, maybe he got hold of it via time travel... :D
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He should have just gone for Roald Dahl. They would have loved it.
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LizR wrote:
shuzbot wrote:During one scene with the orphans, the Doctor reads them "The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb" from Heinrich Hoffmann's Struwwelpeter, which would not actually be published until 1845.

Thin Ice Wikipedia entry#Critical_reception
Well, that's just an anachronism too far! :evil:

Oh wait, maybe he got hold of it via time travel... :D
Looks like that critical reception has been removed (the link didn't work btw as the closing bracket seems to have been excised).

As Liz alluded to, I imagine that the Doctor brought that book with him in one of his copious pockets.
Maybe one of the children grew up to influence Heinrich Hoffmann ;)
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-JMW- wrote:Looks like that critical reception has been removed (the link didn't work btw as the closing bracket seems to have been excised).
I've fixed the link (just put them in URL tags to make sure the whole thing is used). But the section in the Wikipedia article is still missing.
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I'm not a great fan of NuWho, and had stopped watching it last year, but this episode has some moments in it that are simply stunning.

Pearl Mackie… what a genuine actress she is. So real in the part, unlike so many of those who went before her.

Capaldi is showing how fantastic he is, when he's not shackled by Moffat's awful writing.

The scene where he punches out the racist and then gives the speech about the value you place on life is one of the best single moments in all of Doctor Who, Nu and Proper…

Bloody loved it. Most unusual for me!
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Pearl is certainly doing brilliantly in the role... to be honest, if it wasn't for her performance I'd have had a hard time watching any of these 3 so far.
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Hartnell's Wig wrote:The scene where he punches out the racist and then gives the speech about the value you place on life is one of the best single moments in all of Doctor Who, Nu and Proper…
Really? I hated seeing the Doctor punching someone in the face for saying something offensive. For me it was completely out of keeping with his character regardless of incarnation.

Demolishing the racist with a cutting put down rather than resorting to violence would have been much more appropriate, even if he deployed a bit of Perwee's Venusian Aikedo and stuck a couple of fingers just under his collar bone to temporarily paralyse him whilst doing so.

Suggesting, especially to younger members of the audience, that the way to deal with a friend being racially abused is to punch the abuser in the face is a dubious message to send even if most of us would probably share that urge. If any character other than the Doctor had done it I would have no issue, but as far as I'm concerned going around punching people in the face regarless of the provication just isn't something that fits with who he is established as being. The Doctor isn't beyond being violent, far from it, but it's normally portrayed as a last resort rather than a first reaction.
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Sid Rat wrote:
Hartnell's Wig wrote:The scene where he punches out the racist and then gives the speech about the value you place on life is one of the best single moments in all of Doctor Who, Nu and Proper…
Really? I hated seeing the Doctor punching someone in the face for saying something offensive. For me it was completely out of keeping with his character regardless of incarnation.

Demolishing the racist with a cutting put down rather than resorting to violence would have been much more appropriate, even if he deployed a bit of Perwee's Venusian Aikedo and stuck a couple of fingers just under his collar bone to temporarily paralyse him whilst doing so.

Suggesting, especially to younger members of the audience, that the way to deal with a friend being racially abused is to punch the abuser in the face is a dubious message to send even if most of us would probably share that urge. If any character other than the Doctor had done it I would have no issue, but as far as I'm concerned going around punching people in the face regarless of the provication just isn't something that fits with who he is established as being. The Doctor isn't beyond being violent, far from it, but it's normally portrayed as a last resort rather than a first reaction.
In hindsight perhaps the 'punch' scene was a timely (if potentially dubious and irresponsible) 'tribute' to this recent 'Punch-a-Nazi' phenomena that's recently gripped the U.S. post Trump victory (along with other western nations to a lesser degree)?

By "phenomena" I am of course alluding to a not insubstantial number of folk hailing from the hard Left convincing themselves that their supposedly entrenched pacifist and tolerant principles are somehow not compromised by the advocation/exaction of physical violence upon those dubiously designated as "Nazis". Needless to say that this affords proponents a rather convenient mandate to excuse practically any action they inflict against anyone (just as long as one labels them "Nazis" first of course then it's all ok). Fortunately the law is rather less 'accommodating' of such violent actions....

Regardless, a very speculative (and speculatively motivated) scene all told that just doesn't sit well with the Doctor's character or the show and it's underlying 'PC brigade' ethos. Still, given the general crap-ness of the episode, 'punchatoff' was perhaps the least of its problems! 8-)
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James-S wrote: In hindsight perhaps the 'punch' scene was a timely (if potentially dubious and irresponsible) 'tribute' to this recent 'Punch-a-Nazi' phenomena that's recently gripped the U.S. post Trump victory (along with other western nations to a lesser degree)?
No, because this was filmed last August and that Spencer character getting punched was in January this year.
Production
The read-through for the second production block of the tenth series took place on 18 July 2016, and filming began on 1 August 2016, starting with the third episode of the series, "Thin Ice", and then the fourth episode, "Knock Knock".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_Ice_(Doctor_Who)
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Sid Rat wrote:Really? I hated seeing the Doctor punching someone in the face for saying something offensive. For me it was completely out of keeping with his character regardless of incarnation.
It is, but having gone on (often at great length) about how NewWho generally "tells" (often at great length) rather than "shows", I felt that it worked in the context - and even if it didn't, would you rather have the usual 20 minute lecture?

Mind you I could do without the whole "Whiggishness" thing full stop - just having people acting more believably in period would be far better than this 20-20 hindsight and rewriting of history. The proportion of coloured people at the time being so small, as some have already mentioned, he'd be far more likely to be a "classist" - but then, so would everyone else. Far too much of this "Jack's as good as his master" for 1814!
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Final rating of just over 5.6 million and 25th for the week. That's not good.
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