Rate "The Empress of Mars"

For discussion of series 10 of Doctor Who starring Peter Capaldi

Rate "The Empress of Mars"

10
5
6%
9
14
16%
8
25
28%
7
15
17%
6
10
11%
5
6
7%
4
4
4%
3
3
3%
2
2
2%
1
6
7%
 
Total votes : 90

Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby The Ginger Cat » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:20 am

Rate Ep.9 "The Empress of Mars".
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby The Ginger Cat » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:10 pm

Enjoyable enough hokum I guess.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby jezt42 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:16 pm

Enjoyable story, ruined by some truly awful dialogue. Half expected Bert from Mary Poppins to appear and start a dance routine. Another one-dimensional "villain" in the form of Catchlove.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Bowtiesarecool » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Now that's more like it! :D

Brilliant Episode. 10/10
The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby PatTroughtonFan » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:21 pm

As a big fan of the film 'Zulu', I quite enjoyed that. Didn't understand why there was a black soldier though but a good episode with the ice warriors. Some inconsistencies though, for example why did the ice warriors not take away the oxygen? More tactically sound then running into bullets. Why did the soldiers not shoot at the mouths? Anyway despite these flaws the episode was quite enjoyable. Lot better than the terrible monk trilogy and realy bad first half of the season.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Martin_Kinsella » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:27 pm

PatTroughtonFan wrote:As a big fan of the film 'Zulu', I quite enjoyed that. Didn't understand why there was a black soldier though but a good episode with the ice warriors. Some inconsistencies though, for example why did the ice warriors not take away the oxygen? More tactically sound then running into bullets. Why did the soldiers not shoot at the mouths? Anyway despite these flaws the episode was quite enjoyable. Lot better than the terrible monk trilogy and realy bad first half of the season.



Reason for the black soldier. Tokenism probably.

Reasonable story. I enjoyed it on a superficial level, Awful dialogue. Once again an anti migration message, like the one we had In unquiet Dead. Only the Martians belong in Mars apparently. No room for outsiders. What was the point in changing the impact of the ice warrior guns. Crap effect. Pointless.
J'aime Le Chameau Orteil.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby shuzbot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:28 pm

I gave it a six because although there were some good bits the execution seemed off. The pre-credit scenes are a waste of time and always seem to go against the tone of the episode. The Jules Verne type aesthetics were nice but a bit out of place like the British Soldiers. The music was good and I liked the design of the Ice Warrior tombs. Not so sure about the Queen's dreadlocks. The music was this season has been much better and quite enjoyed it in this particular episode.

Shame Nardole got written out so early on. He's great but he just feels superfluous at times. I think possibly this could have done with being a two-parter. Nice to see Alpha Centauri - but why? Much better than the Monk trilogy. 6/10 - it felt like filler.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby thecypher » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:32 pm

Haven't watched it yet, but did they do a last minute title change removing "The"?
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby ericthehalfabee » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:37 pm

Great idea. The Ice Warriors and their sonic guns were great. I was giggling at the Alpha Centauri cameo. I thought it all looked great.

I didn't understand the relationship of the officers nor why an officer hanged for desertion was still serving. That relationship with the officers was a bit woolly and unnecessary.

Best of the season. Best Gatiss I can remember. 7/10.

NB The soldiers were indeed wearing the uniform of the 24th Foot, but the black cockney redcoat was ridiculous box ticking... there just weren't any (notwithstanding the Natal Native Contingent etc.) Also, practically all the redcoats at Isandhlwana, save a dozen or so, were massacred, so that didn't make sense.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby DarachAnLaoch » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:40 pm

Enjoyed the references to Day of the Daleks (Rank Has It's Priviledges) and to Curse/Monster of Peladon (Alpha Centuari) but the pacing is still all over the place. At least there was some attempt to create threat but without any real supporting characters there was no feeling of tension created. I disagree that the 45 minute format is the problem, as during the RTD era they managed to make many well-rounded stories in that time frame. It would appear to be that the current production team just cannot pace a story. All in all, it was enjoyable enough, but Doctor Who these days is disposable 'entertainment'. Will anyone ever remember "Knock Knock" or "Oxygen" in the way we do "Marco Polo", "The Web of Fear", "Inferno", "Robots of Death", "Earthshock", "Revelation of the Daleks" or "The Curse of Fenric". RTD Era stories certainly have attained that similar legendary status like "Parting of the Ways", "The Impossible Planet" etc. It's not to do with nostalgia, the current episodes are just sub-par and inconsequential. I was tempted to give this episode a 7/10 but then i would only be doing so in comparison to other Moffat era stories. But when judged as part of the Doctor Who canon, is this episode really a 7/10 in the way that, (just as a quick example, perhaps not what I'd really rate these two) "The Sun Makers" or "Planet of the Ood' is a 7/10. It may seem really harsh to grade this 3 or 4 out of ten but the reality is, whilst this series is an improvement upon the dreck of recent years, it's still bland and forgettable.

(Also, this episode was really ugly to look at and shot with no real creativity. It felt really claustrophbic and not in an atmospheric way. Just seemed like the director didn't give a rat's a**).
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Zarius » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:40 pm

shuzbot wrote:Nice to see Alpha Centauri - but why?


...I thought it was blatantly obvious...to explain why the Ice Warriors are so nice in Curse of Peladon

Really good episode. Actual characters with a backstory, good body count even if it was fairly one-sided. Inspired design of the Gargantuan...would have liked it to have taken out a few Ice Warriors.

Oh, and I loved when Gatiss worked in a ''Sleep No More'' joke :D

Miles better than last week, and even the week before. A nice adventure, and the storyline with the vault may just have been salvaged, now I want to know why the TARDIS landed back on Earth with Nardole in the first place and what's going on with The Doctor.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby shuzbot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:42 pm

Zarius wrote:
shuzbot wrote:Nice to see Alpha Centauri - but why?


...I thought it was blatantly obvious...to explain why the Ice Warriors are so nice in Curse of Peladon


Because that needed explaining did it? I always thought Curse of Peladon worked well enough without his episode.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby johnnybear » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:08 pm

Quite a reasonable episode for once and I love The Ice Warriors. Must admit I prefer the original look though with their slight sneery smirk and when I heard that voice I knew it was going to be Alpha Centauri! Moffat likes to change history with the black guy because he thinks it's funny but I do find stories not written by him a lot better than those that are! I gave it a nine, maybe because I'm old enough to recall that hissing lumbering green alien on the moon, in the ice and in the Peladonian corridors!
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Happygolucky » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:13 pm

8/10 for me, the Ice Warriors are my favourite monster. I loved the look, not overly impressed with the new sonic gun or the Cyber type clunky walk, also they needed more sssss in their voices. Nice touch to the original Ice Warriors dropping into their shells (when they came up through the ground) like a turtle, executed brilliantly by Bernard Bresslaw in the Trought original!! No need for a black actor, sometimes Dr Who is so politically correct that it becomes offensive!! I shouted out Alpha Centuri as soon as I heard the voice!! Nice!! I enjoyed this episode even more than ever after the last 2 episodes, they were bobbins!!
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby TheDentistOfDavros » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:15 pm

shuzbot wrote:
Zarius wrote:
shuzbot wrote:Nice to see Alpha Centauri - but why?


...I thought it was blatantly obvious...to explain why the Ice Warriors are so nice in Curse of Peladon


Because that needed explaining did it? I always thought Curse of Peladon worked well enough without his episode.


I don't think he was explaining it as such, it was just an amusing cameo and not something to take too seriously. :)

It was quite good and miles better than last week's but nothing too special. 7/10. The Ice Queen looked very cool though and so did all the new Ice Warriors (Their redesign is possibly the only one that betters the original costumes!)

My view on the black soldier is that their shouldn't be any discussion on it. Unless I'm forgetting something the script made no reference to him being black (If I'm wrong then you can completely ignore what I'm about to say :D ) so we shouldn't be here saying it's just OTT political correctness. If they did make a big deal about it then you could have that discussion but as it is we are the ones making the fuss on this occasion not the makers of the program. All they did was cast a black actor in the role (a role that could have been anyone's) which is completely fine, we are the ones who are determined to raise the issue. Just leave it be.

I do accept it wasn't truly like that in the past but that shouldn't hinder black people looking for jobs now!
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby shuzbot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:34 pm

ericthehalfabee wrote:NB The soldiers were indeed wearing the uniform of the 24th Foot, but the black cockney redcoat was ridiculous box ticking... there just weren't any (notwithstanding the Natal Native Contingent etc.) Also, practically all the redcoats at Isandhlwana, save a dozen or so, were massacred, so that didn't make sense.



From Another Forum wrote:Something not yet commented on is in the pre title sequence, they show the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) which is at Kennedy Space Centre in Florida. They zoomed in to the top of it to imply that mission control was located there. Well, the VAB is the world's largest single storey building and is used purely to assemble everything that is launched into space from KSC. Mission control for crewed missions is at the Johnson Space Centre in Houston, Texas and robotic probes are usually controlled from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena. I just wish that the production team would get some basic facts right.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Paolo_Sammut » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:37 pm

I thought it was a solid 8 which I think good since Mark Gatiss stories generally disappoint me. I was hoping to see a city of Ice Warriors though like we saw that city of Silurians in “The Hungry Earth”

There were some nice touches in this such as Centuri at the end which glues the Ice Warriors encounter in Troughton’s era with the move honourable and benevolent ones in Curse of Peladon. However as commented above the pre credits sequence was a bit unnecessary and I don’t get why the TARDIS just left. I cannot think of an occasion when the TARDIS has ever done that on its own and I don’t think that an be explained away with Nardole’s comment to Missy. Obviously it was an excuse to let Missy out but I think it could have been handled better.

Extra points for the RHIP comment which was echoed by Mike Yates in Day of the Daleks. I loved that little touch

There were nice echoes of the Pertwee Doctors as a peace broker as well and Bill was quite good. I do like the visuals with the Ice Warrior Queen as well. Sort of hot in an alien kind of way. Did I really type that :)
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby johnnybear » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:41 pm

Happygolucky wrote:8/10 for me, the Ice Warriors are my favourite monster. I loved the look, not overly impressed with the new sonic gun or the Cyber type clunky walk, also they needed more sssss in their voices. Nice touch to the original Ice Warriors dropping into their shells (when they came up through the ground) like a turtle, executed brilliantly by Bernard Bresslaw in the Trought original!! No need for a black actor, sometimes Dr Who is so politically correct that it becomes offensive!! I shouted out Alpha Centuri as soon as I heard the voice!! Nice!! I enjoyed this episode even more than ever after the last 2 episodes, they were bobbins!!
Regards HGL


They didn't need the hiss due to them being on their own home planet I guess!
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby ericthehalfabee » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:41 pm

shuzbot wrote:
ericthehalfabee wrote:NB The soldiers were indeed wearing the uniform of the 24th Foot, but the black cockney redcoat was ridiculous box ticking... there just weren't any (notwithstanding the Natal Native Contingent etc.) Also, practically all the redcoats at Isandhlwana, save a dozen or so, were massacred, so that didn't make sense.



From Another Forum wrote:Something not yet commented on is in the pre title sequence, they show the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) which is at Kennedy Space Centre in Florida. They zoomed in to the top of it to imply that mission control was located there. Well, the VAB is the world's largest single storey building and is used purely to assemble everything that is launched into space from KSC. Mission control for crewed missions is at the Johnson Space Centre in Houston, Texas and robotic probes are usually controlled from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena. I just wish that the production team would get some basic facts right.


Haha. Sorry - it's something of a pet subject :)
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby shuzbot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:43 pm

ericthehalfabee wrote:Haha. Sorry - it's something of a pet subject :)


I thought you made an interesting point. I just like seeing how it does or doesn't stack up to real world comparisons :)
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