Rate "The Empress of Mars"

For discussion of series 10 of Doctor Who starring Peter Capaldi

Rate "The Empress of Mars"

10
5
6%
9
14
16%
8
25
28%
7
15
17%
6
10
11%
5
6
7%
4
4
4%
3
3
3%
2
2
2%
1
6
7%
 
Total votes: 90
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DSJR
 
 
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So, in this 'new' timeline, where Alpha Centauri contacts the Victrian era ice Warriors, how does 'Seeds of Doom' fit into this? I'm assuming the T-Mat era is well in the future (I need to watch it again, it's years now since I saw it last)
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DSJR wrote:So, in this 'new' timeline, where Alpha Centauri contacts the Victrian era ice Warriors, how does 'Seeds of Doom' fit into this? I'm assuming the T-Mat era is well in the future (I need to watch it again, it's years now since I saw it last)
There could well be other hives of Ice Warriors which wake up a different points in history.
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DSJR wrote:So, in this 'new' timeline, where Alpha Centauri contacts the Victrian era ice Warriors, how does 'Seeds of Doom' fit into this? I'm assuming the T-Mat era is well in the future (I need to watch it again, it's years now since I saw it last)

Empress of Mars -
Cold War - 1983
(Presumably, the Ice Warriors would go here)
Seeds of Death – Late-21st century
Peladon 3885 - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Curse_ ... (TV_story)
Monster of Peladon 3932 - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Monste ... (TV_story)

So The Ice Warriors turn nice then nasty and then nice again. Gatiss f*cked the continuity. :monkey:
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Was looking forward to this episode and certainly enjoyed it very much - but it still didn't quite deliver what I was hoping for. Yet again, it is a story that would have benefited from space to breathe and build suspense over two or three episodes (unlike the last story, which spanned three turgid nonsensical episodes but should never have gotten off the drawing board). Gatiss did his best to breathe life into the characters but there simply was not enough screen time to achieve it fully.

The Ice Warriors and their Empress looked and sounded fantastic. The effect of their compression weapons was wonderfully realised and particularly gruesome without any blood being being necessary. The Alpha Centauri cameo was an unexpected pleasure. More than enough for me to long for an overdue screen return to Peladon.

Suffered from the same problem as most 'good' WHO these days - great concept, solid set up and main section - but an unfulfilling and inadequate conclusion.

Still a solid 7/10 from me.
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Fun romp. Everything fit together nicely in the time permitted (equally it could have been extended to a two parter). It didn't feel rushed and the Ice-Queen was satisfactorily conceived and portrayed.

Minor niggles:
I'm not quite sure why all the soldiers travelled to Mars rather than the chap who discovered "Man Friday", and they seemed to adapt to their surroundings rather easily. I presume they either had rations or some form of replicator on the Ice Warrior vessel. I'll be watching this again tonight to catch any erroneous details.

That Ice-Warrior ray-gun might prove useful in packing for a holiday....I'm not quite sure what it did to the humans but they certainly seemed compact.

Have we ever learned the "Ice-Warriors" true moniker? I mean "Ice-Warrior" was just something people labelled them in their first appearance because they were trapped in the ice wasn't it?. Similar to Silurians and Sea-Devils I suppose we may never know.

The portrait of the Victoria from Tooth and Claw was a nice touch.
Also the inclusion of Alpha Centuri was amusing and nicely dovetailed into the Pertwee era* - even though I knew he/she/it was coming I chuckled sufficiently for my daughter to ask why - we then watched the first two episodes of Curse of Peladon so she could familiarise herself. :)

Something intriguing occurring with Missy and the Doctor at the end - presumably he's in muchos trouble for breaking the deal and permitting her to leave before the one thousand(?) years.


*I'm not at all bothered about the "timeline" - this is not Star Trek, it's the decided unconventional adventures of Doctor Who - timelines mean zilch when there's at least one rogue Timelord zapping around creating ripples. Time could be changing around him and he'd not necessarily know.

I voted 8/10
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Complete rubbish. When the best thing about it is the most irritating thing in the dross that was the Peladon double header, you are in trouble.
The key to usable HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is distinguishing the real, highly placed sources from the bullsh*tting wannabes who pretend they’re highly placed sources by making sh*t up

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Victorians vs Ice Warriors, typical Gatis I suppose. But why would the Martians refer to themselves as 'Ice Warriors?' That term was leveled at the first Martian because he was clearly a warrior and happened to be discovered in a block of Ice. I can understand the Doctor referring to them thus, but would the Martians of that time even be aware of the name? Good to see the Ice Warriors, but would rather they had appeared in Chibers run.
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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I was thinking it through: this episode was basically Tomb of the Cybermen, but with Ice Warriors instead of Cybermen and set in the past rather than in the future. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing - personally I like Tomb, but do I want to sit through a rehash of it?
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Martin_Kinsella wrote:
PatTroughtonFan wrote:As a big fan of the film 'Zulu', I quite enjoyed that. Didn't understand why there was a black soldier though but a good episode with the ice warriors. Some inconsistencies though, for example why did the ice warriors not take away the oxygen? More tactically sound then running into bullets. Why did the soldiers not shoot at the mouths? Anyway despite these flaws the episode was quite enjoyable. Lot better than the terrible monk trilogy and realy bad first half of the season.

Reason for the black soldier. Tokenism probably.

Reasonable story. I enjoyed it on a superficial level, Awful dialogue. Once again an anti migration message, like the one we had In unquiet Dead. Only the Martians belong in Mars apparently. No room for outsiders. What was the point in changing the impact of the ice warrior guns. Crap effect. Pointless.
I agree, the effect of the gun on its target was naff.
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Martin_Kinsella wrote:What was the point in changing the impact of the ice warrior guns. Crap effect. Pointless.
Probably the same point as changing their voices. They can't help themselves, and think they know better than their classic series superiors.
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So, what's all this about it being Mark Gatiss' last Doctor Who story?

(5/10...just didn't do anything for me, cringed at Alpha Centauri first but the more I think about it the more I like it)
Formally known as 'The_6th_Doctor'
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-JMW-
 
 
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Martin_Kinsella wrote:Once again an anti migration message, like the one we had In unquiet Dead. Only the Martians belong in Mars apparently. No room for outsiders.
More like not safe for outsiders. Think, "The New World" or "Conquest of Paradise"...but where the indigenous populace are overwhelmingly formidable.

The locals were hostile and overwhelmingly superior in terms of strength, numbers and tech, so advising the humans to leave rather than stake their claim on the land was probably for their own good...else they get slaughtered. I dare say, if the territory had been viable, the humans would have returned prepared for the usual battles we undertake when we wish to invade, conquer and oppress. Either that or the Ice-Warriors might have done so to Earth (had the situation not been diffused).

To the victor the spoils?
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iank wrote:
Martin_Kinsella wrote:What was the point in changing the impact of the ice warrior guns. Crap effect. Pointless.
Probably the same point as changing their voices. They can't help themselves, and think they know better than their classic series superiors.
Well they changed the ice warrior weapons in the Peladon stories.
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I found the pre-credit sequence awkward and derisive. I'm not over keen on Capaldi's take on Who either. It's not 'Smith' bad, but it's not to my taste. I have enjoyed this series more than any of the others 'the dread Moffat' has overseen but I still find it a bit rushed and superficial. When I compare that to the 'Ice Warriors' or any of the Peladon stories... it just doesn't pass muster.

I really enjoyed Gatiss original novel 'Nightshade', sadly, like Gareth Roberts, none of his TV stuff has lived up to expectation.

I do have similar fears for the original Cybermen, when they return, and if they alter the original voices then they are not the original Cybermen.
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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One of the best episodes this season, not something I usually say of the Gatiss episodes. But this one really played to his strengths: http://llamastranglermarathon.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1
Have a look at my blog. It's sort of ok

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iank wrote:
Martin_Kinsella wrote:What was the point in changing the impact of the ice warrior guns. Crap effect. Pointless.
Probably the same point as changing their voices. They can't help themselves, and think they know better than their classic series superiors.
Amen to that.
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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Hartnell's Wig wrote:Complete rubbish. When the best thing about it is the most irritating thing in the dross that was the Peladon double header, you are in trouble.
Good to see you not breaking the habit of a lifetime Wiggy.

Another 1 from you I take it?
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Much better than what we have seen this year, could have laid money that there would be some political correctness expressed. God just one episode that doesn't feel the need to check off that box would be nice. At least it was off earth....god be nice to see stories on other worlds, and longer stories.
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The sonic guns and the IW's actual voices are different because they're in Mars atmosphere. Also, their armor is lighter on Mars, letting them move quicker.
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Juat want to say black solider was very jarring and though I understand why they did it and can appreciate sentiment it doesn't mean that I should automatically agree with it, no matter how good their intentions are. Historically it was just inaccurate and though show started out as educational show for kids, it doesn't mean should then use as instrument for social engineering, not if their facts are wrong. You want to correctly portray 19th century English colonism as horrible, then cool portray it as horrible. But your not going to do that if up you decide undercut your central message by also showing them to be progressive as well. I'm sorry but for me it just doesn't work and don't get me started on blasters that hit you and roll you up in a ball. Just disintegrate them ...


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