Rate "The Empress of Mars"

For discussion of series 10 of Doctor Who starring Peter Capaldi

Rate "The Empress of Mars"

10
5
6%
9
14
16%
8
25
28%
7
15
17%
6
10
11%
5
6
7%
4
4
4%
3
3
3%
2
2
2%
1
6
7%
 
Total votes : 90

Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby ericthehalfabee » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:31 pm

Dr Scott wrote:I have just had the unfortunate experience of watching this piece of criminal garbage.

Incomprehensible trash, that smacks not only of general Moffat-era rubbish, continuing disrespect for the canon, and a fine example of the poorly written pulp that constitutes the Gatiss\Moffat era of 'modern Who', but additionally destroys any merit in what could have been a triumphant return of the ice warriors.

How dare you Mark Gatiss. How dare you!

Having already turned the Ice Warriors into ridiculous lizards previously, and waxed lyrical to the Radio Times about how much 'respect' and excitement for bringing these fine adversaries back you had, how could you possibly justify those comments with the sh*t that I had to endure this evening.

The voices were wrong.

The story was sh*t.

The ice warriors presented no threat whatsoever, you've f*cked with the continuity enough.

Please just f*ck of Mark.

Your'e a failure, just like Moffat. Thanks for further spoiling an already sh*it series that Moffat and yourself should have been kept far away from years ago.

Keep away from Dr Who in the future, we don't need any other classic monsters ruined.

Your'e an utter disgrace Gatiss.

Unkindest regards,

Dr Scott


So did you like it, or not???
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Timeloopy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:00 pm

9/10 really loved it and great to see Alpha Centuri
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby greystone_06 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Dr Scott wrote:
Your'e a failure, just like Moffat. Thanks for further spoiling an already sh*it series that Moffat and yourself should have been kept far away from years ago.

we don't need any other classic monsters ruined.




Dr Scott


Wow, hard to argue with that.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Zarius » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Doctor Who and the Salt Lords of Edge :lol:
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby nosfer2 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:52 pm

LizR wrote:
nosfer2 wrote:I was thinking it through: this episode was basically Tomb of the Cybermen, but with Ice Warriors instead of Cybermen and set in the past rather than in the future. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing - personally I like Tomb, but do I want to sit through a rehash of it?

Oh, I thought it was just me who immediately thought "Tomb", so I didn't mention that. Should have read everyone's comments before posting!

Well, except that Tomb didn't conclude with the Cybermen deciding to be nice after all, which as a trope is getting wee a bit irritating. It would have been more dramatically satisfying (to me) if they'd managed a more Tomb-y ending with still-hostile Warriors being shut in again ... "for now!"


This morning I read the preview in DWM (I always wait until after seeing the episode to avoid spoilers!), and Mark Gatiss states that this was intentional.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby JPS » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:57 pm

Got to admit I loved this episode. After 3 wasted episodes of drivel, we are back on form with a lovely simple episode featuring the brilliant Ice Warriors. The Empress was fabulous too. Loved the way the soldiers were killed lol. Alpha was a nice touch and being from CHESTERFIELD in Derbyshire, I loved the reference to our church The Crooked Spire :D Definately the best episode this season and a 9/10 from me. Just wish it was 2 parts.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby -JMW- » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:22 pm

JPS wrote:Being from CHESTERFIELD in Derbyshire, I loved the reference to our church The Crooked Spire :D

Me too :D
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby chap with wings » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:52 pm

dull and generic - really boring. :cry:
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby iank » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:37 pm

Rather enjoyed that one, certainly a vast improvement on the Monks trilogy (what a pain in the rear end waste of time that all was). Given this seems to be Gatiss' last script it's a good one to finish on. A few new series-related niggles aside (I.e it was rushed, a few moments of PC wankery and the arc plot unnecessarily butting in) this was a very enjoyable slice of refreshingly unpretentious oldskool fun with some cliched but fun guest characters (nice to see the guy from New Tricks in it, and he was good too). Not bad at all, probably joint with Oxygen as the best of the season to date. :)
And I can't believe they brought Alpha Centauri back! 7. :lol:
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Rob Mammone » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:56 pm

Nice Space:1889 reference.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby LizR » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:14 am

nosfer2 wrote:
LizR wrote:
nosfer2 wrote:I was thinking it through: this episode was basically Tomb of the Cybermen, but with Ice Warriors instead of Cybermen and set in the past rather than in the future. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing - personally I like Tomb, but do I want to sit through a rehash of it?

Oh, I thought it was just me who immediately thought "Tomb", so I didn't mention that. Should have read everyone's comments before posting!

Well, except that Tomb didn't conclude with the Cybermen deciding to be nice after all, which as a trope is getting wee a bit irritating. It would have been more dramatically satisfying (to me) if they'd managed a more Tomb-y ending with still-hostile Warriors being shut in again ... "for now!"


This morning I read the preview in DWM (I always wait until after seeing the episode to avoid spoilers!), and Mark Gatiss states that this was intentional.

He intended to do a substandard retread of "Tomb" ??? :shock:
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby LizR » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:16 am

Oh, and the "all girls together" bit was cringe-making too. (That and back to the wicked Queens RTD was so fond of....was Gatiss also unduly influenced by Disney's version of "Snow White" in his youth (pet theory) ?)
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby -JMW- » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:08 am

LizR wrote:He intended to do a substandard retread of "Tomb" ??? :shock:

The staging, acting and effects of Empress were an improvement on "Tomb". Even the (deliberately?) cringe-worthy dialogue was an improvement on Tomb. Empress though might benefit from excising the Missy scenes and an extra episode's worth of deduction, atmosphere and guest development, whereas Tomb could have done with an episode less (in modern hindsight) to tighten the pace and trim those moments of unintentional hilarity in set restriction and when the Cybermen should not have permitted the weak humans to elude them so easily (especially once captured). In Tomb I also felt the Doctor fell for the Cybermen's "open the tomb" initiative/intellect test far too readily.

Anyhoo - about Empress..... :D
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby iank » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:54 am

LizR wrote:Oh, and the "all girls together" bit was cringe-making too. (That and back to the wicked Queens RTD was so fond of....was Gatiss also unduly influenced by Disney's version of "Snow White" in his youth (pet theory) ?)


Yeah, that was stupid. I can't imagine an Empress/Queen commanding much loyalty from male troops with that kind of behaviour. :roll:
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby LizR » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:32 am

-JMW- wrote:
LizR wrote:He intended to do a substandard retread of "Tomb" ??? :shock:

The staging, acting and effects of Empress were an improvement on "Tomb". Even the (deliberately?) cringe-worthy dialogue was an improvement on Tomb. Empress though might benefit from excising the Missy scenes and an extra episode's worth of deduction, atmosphere and guest development, whereas Tomb could have done with an episode less (in modern hindsight) to tighten the pace and trim those moments of unintentional hilarity in set restriction and when the Cybermen should not have permitted the weak humans to elude them so easily (especially once captured). In Tomb I also felt the Doctor fell for the Cybermen's "open the tomb" initiative/intellect test far too readily.

Oh, Tomb has loads of faults. Anything with a character called "Kaftan" is in dangerous waters, never mind the idiocy of the Cybermen's plan, lots of loopholes, etc.

-JMW- wrote:Anyhoo - about Empress..... :D

As I said, it's an inferior retread - I meant the actual writing, which I assume is the bit Gatiss was responsible for, right?

Some of Tomb's dialogue is lamentable, and it has the faults mentioned above (and doesn't do well on the PC-ometer, of course) but the story is still better than the low bar set by Empress, IMHO.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Amyiszygon » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:31 am

Looks like I'm not the only fan who had serious issues with historical inaccuracies of last week episode :

Exclusive: Doctor Who writer protested against 'problematic' casting of black actor as Victorian soldier :

The writer of Doctor Who has revealed how he protested against the “colour blind” casting of a black actor as a Victorian soldier in the BBC show.

Mark Gatiss said he was uneasy about a “brilliant young black actor” being cast as one of the soldiers, because “there weren’t any black soldiers in Victoria’s army”.

He put the decision down to the BBC’s drive to become “more representational and make everything less homogeneously white”.

Gatiss described the “very difficult” email he sent to a colleague explaining his feelings on the matter. It was only after he discovered records showing that there was in fact a single black soldier in Victoria’s army, that he accepted the decision.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/20 ... c-casting/

:)
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby LizR » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:47 am

So there was one, although he probably didn't get turned into a bundle of laundry on Mars.

Nice to see Gatiss sticking up for trying to make things historically accurate, and I have to withdraw my comment about "when push came to shove" seeming anachronistic because it WAS actually in use in 1888, see https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/8376/what-is-the-origin-of-the-phrase-when-push-comes-to-shove - specifically:

Earliest reference at all is from 1873 in United Methodist Free Churches’ Mag.: “The proposed improvement is about to fail, when Push comes up behind it and gives it a shove, and Pull goes in front and lays into the traces; and, lo! the enterprise advances, the goal is reached!”


Admittedly that doesn't make it likely that it was in common use, especially in the modern more abbreviated form, but it's at least possible.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby Flying Tiger Comics » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:02 am

Amyiszygon wrote:Looks like I'm not the only fan who had serious issues with historical inaccuracies of last week episode :

Exclusive: Doctor Who writer protested against 'problematic' casting of black actor as Victorian soldier :

The writer of Doctor Who has revealed how he protested against the “colour blind” casting of a black actor as a Victorian soldier in the BBC show.

Mark Gatiss said he was uneasy about a “brilliant young black actor” being cast as one of the soldiers, because “there weren’t any black soldiers in Victoria’s army”.

He put the decision down to the BBC’s drive to become “more representational and make everything less homogeneously white”.

Gatiss described the “very difficult” email he sent to a colleague explaining his feelings on the matter. It was only after he discovered records showing that there was in fact a single black soldier in Victoria’s army, that he accepted the decision.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/20 ... c-casting/

:)


Gatiss confirmed as Who's Milo analogue. Covfefe effort by him, truly 139 email. His days are now presumably numbered or he already knew he wasn't getting a gig under Chibbnnnnaallllll. I would like to think though that he despises ahistorical propaganda as much as any sane mature person does.

Special dishonourable mention goes to shoehorning in a magic negro redcoat when they could have instead done something HISTORICAL such as have an ally, tribal elder or any one of a hundred other actual historical British Imperial blacks of the appropriate era.

This Stephen James Walker sh*t can't end soon enough.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby oldschool » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:22 am

Dr Scott wrote:I have just had the unfortunate experience of watching this piece of criminal garbage.

Incomprehensible trash, that smacks not only of general Moffat-era rubbish, continuing disrespect for the canon, and a fine example of the poorly written pulp that constitutes the Gatiss\Moffat era of 'modern Who', but additionally destroys any merit in what could have been a triumphant return of the ice warriors.

How dare you Mark Gatiss. How dare you!

Having already turned the Ice Warriors into ridiculous lizards previously, and waxed lyrical to the Radio Times about how much 'respect' and excitement for bringing these fine adversaries back you had, how could you possibly justify those comments with the sh*t that I had to endure this evening.

The voices were wrong.

The story was sh*t.

The ice warriors presented no threat whatsoever, you've f*cked with the continuity enough.

Please just f*ck of Mark.

Your'e a failure, just like Moffat. Thanks for further spoiling an already sh*it series that Moffat and yourself should have been kept far away from years ago.

Keep away from Dr Who in the future, we don't need any other classic monsters ruined.

Your'e an utter disgrace Gatiss.

Unkindest regards,

Dr Scott


Unfortunately most episodes since Tennant's debut have been utter mince.
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Re: Rate "The Empress of Mars"

Postby -JMW- » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:17 am

LizR wrote:Some of Tomb's dialogue is lamentable, and it has the faults mentioned above (and doesn't do well on the PC-ometer, of course) but the story is still better than the low bar set by Empress, IMHO.

I agree with this at least....I'm not 100% sure why I agree, but I think in part it's to do with the length of the Tomb story, permitting us an extended "relationship" with the guest characters - albeit them being caricatures.

Tomb was also in one of those golden eras when the relationship between Doctor and companion(s) rings especially true...in particular the Troughton and Hines double act. Although Capaldi and Mackie have performed admirably (Mackie in particular), this was not a story in which either shone brightly....The aforementioned geeking out from Bill seemed far too spontaneous and specific, and Capaldi's tendency to mimic Tom Baker went overboard on this one.

Technically Empress was superior with it's tighter script, but Tomb was more comfortable in it's (unintended) quirkiness.
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