Sherlock (BBC TV Series).

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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby chap with wings » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:59 pm

ianj wrote:Ed delgado...!



you will obey meeee :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:59 pm

chap with wings wrote:Oh and since when was Irene Adler another regeneration of River Song??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Uh oh. Is Moffat suffering from the "Rose Tyler Effect" ?
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby chap with wings » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:22 pm

LizR wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Oh and since when was Irene Adler another regeneration of River Song??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Uh oh. Is Moffat suffering from the "Rose Tyler Effect" ?


Afraid so, dominatrix, sassy and flirtatious with the Doctor, sorry Sherlock
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:25 pm

chap with wings wrote:Afraid so, dominatrix, sassy and flirtatious with the Doctor, sorry Sherlock

In that case my husband will definitely be watching. :lol: :roll:

.....Although, actually......it's a while since I saw it, but wasn't that how "The Woman" was portrayed in the recent SH film? (And indeed in the story or stories where she first appeared...? Sorry my memory isn't what it should be...)
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby chap with wings » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:28 pm

LizR wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Afraid so, dominatrix, sassy and flirtatious with the Doctor, sorry Sherlock

In that case my husband will definitely be watching. :lol: :roll:


She is no Alex Kingston ;)
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby Mike Nuttall » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:55 pm

chap with wings wrote:
ianj wrote:Ed delgado...!



you will obey meeee :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Thanks for the big inflatable plastic chair you sent me for Christmas, Ed, it's very comfortable. The little red monster doll you sent for Shaun was also much appreciated, although we can't seem to find it half the time...
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby The Nimon » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:15 pm

LizR wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Afraid so, dominatrix, sassy and flirtatious with the Doctor, sorry Sherlock

In that case my husband will definitely be watching. :lol: :roll:

.....Although, actually......it's a while since I saw it, but wasn't that how "The Woman" was portrayed in the recent SH film? (And indeed in the story or stories where she first appeared...? Sorry my memory isn't what it should be...)


Irene Adler only ever appeared in one short story written by Conan Doyle, it was called A Scandal in Bohemia and told the tale of the only person ever to beat Sherlock Holmes. In years after other people wirting stories, audios or films have seemed to bring her back time and again as some kind of love interest, it's the same with Moriarty, who only appeared, or was mentioned, in 3 of the original stories.
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:40 pm

The Nimon wrote:Irene Adler only ever appeared in one short story written by Conan Doyle, it was called A Scandal in Bohemia and told the tale of the only person ever to beat Sherlock Holmes. In years after other people wirting stories, audios or films have seemed to bring her back time and again as some kind of love interest, it's the same with Moriarty, who only appeared, or was mentioned, in 3 of the original stories.

That sounds about right. I only remember her being in that one story, so I may have confused her with someone else. As for Moriarty, did he actually make it into 3 stories? I always thought it was ridiculous to make him so significant in later films, TV etc when ACD only invented him to kill off Holmes.

(If the Master really was supposed to be Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes, he would only have ever appeared once or twice....)
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby abominable snowman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 pm

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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby Mike Nuttall » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:23 pm

abominable snowman wrote:Steven Moffat sexist?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ven-moffat


Gimme a break! :roll:
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby The Nimon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:08 am

LizR wrote:
The Nimon wrote:Irene Adler only ever appeared in one short story written by Conan Doyle, it was called A Scandal in Bohemia and told the tale of the only person ever to beat Sherlock Holmes. In years after other people wirting stories, audios or films have seemed to bring her back time and again as some kind of love interest, it's the same with Moriarty, who only appeared, or was mentioned, in 3 of the original stories.

That sounds about right. I only remember her being in that one story, so I may have confused her with someone else. As for Moriarty, did he actually make it into 3 stories? I always thought it was ridiculous to make him so significant in later films, TV etc when ACD only invented him to kill off Holmes.

(If the Master really was supposed to be Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes, he would only have ever appeared once or twice....)


Moriarty was in the Final problem, he was also mentioned / kind of appeared in the Valley of Fear, I think there was one more story he was mentioned in but the title escapes me. It has only been the fans / film makers that have built Moriarty up to where he is considered today
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:53 pm

The Nimon wrote:Moriarty was in the Final problem, he was also mentioned / kind of appeared in the Valley of Fear, I think there was one more story he was mentioned in but the title escapes me. It has only been the fans / film makers that have built Moriarty up to where he is considered today

...and the Goon Show! :lol:

However, as far as ACD was concerned he was a throwaway idea, introduced so he could bump off Holmes. As you say it's only fans, remakes, etc that have made him so prominent (particularly since in the original canon, didn't he die at Reichenbach??? Or am I misrememberating?)
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:01 pm

abominable snowman wrote:Steven Moffat sexist?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ven-moffat

The writer seems to be conflating ACD's "universe" with Holmes'.

To wit:

A Scandal in Bohemia opens with Conan Doyle sidelining feeling as "grit in a sensitive instrument", a spanner in the works of the world's "most perfect reasoning and observing machine".


No it doesn't. It starts with HOLMES sidelining feeling as "grit in a sensitive instrument" etc, etc.

He's a character. A character who almost certainly isn't an author avatar. (Can you see Holmes being fooled for 2 minutes by the Cottingley fairies?!?)

Anyway, the comments on Moffat's treatment of female characters are interesting, but I have forcibly stopped myself reading too much as I haven't yet got around to watching the episode in question. But I will revisit this once I have...
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby chap with wings » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 pm

Better than last weeks, but Baskerville is a very good story, reminded me of Jonathan Creek, but a bit too knowingly self satisfied & lacking in warmth.
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:59 pm

Just got to see "A scandal". Well, not bad, altho not really a classic detective story (i.e. one where the reader/viewer tries to solve it before the truth is revealed). More of a thriller, I guess. I though Adler was a better character than (say) River Song, but perhaps that's just because there wasn't any time travel making everything uber-complicated, just lots (and lots) of "normal" plot twists. In fact I would say "Sherlock" is more suited to Moffat's Swiss-watch style of plotting than Dr Who, and the apparently emotion-free Sherlock is more suited to his characterisation that the Doctor. And Watson is a slightly more engaging version of Rory.,,

I wasn't very taken with the series cliffhanger resolution. Moriarty (who seems far too young, but I suppose that's a generic failing in TV nowadays) decides to let Holmes off the hook because he gets a phone call? Seemed a wee bit weak. Or did I miss something?

The plane full of bodies was a nice touch, worthy of "Spooks" I thought (but kind of wasted - a Moff throwaway idea that might have made a nice little twist). Mrs H and Mycroft both rather good. Must say I liked the ending, who wouldn't fall for a man who takes you pulse to check if you're aroused, and then rescues you from certain death (with a quote from Patrick Troughton, if I heard aright) ? It's Spock Syndrome all over again...!
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:49 pm

(By the way, am I the only person who thinks that Moffat made her a dominatrix just so he could use lines like "the woman who beat Holmes" ? )
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby The Nimon » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:05 pm

Another brilliant show last night, I did guess the resolve 20 mins in but still enjoyable
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby The Nimon » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:12 pm

LizR wrote:
The Nimon wrote:Moriarty was in the Final problem, he was also mentioned / kind of appeared in the Valley of Fear, I think there was one more story he was mentioned in but the title escapes me. It has only been the fans / film makers that have built Moriarty up to where he is considered today

...and the Goon Show! :lol:

However, as far as ACD was concerned he was a throwaway idea, introduced so he could bump off Holmes. As you say it's only fans, remakes, etc that have made him so prominent (particularly since in the original canon, didn't he die at Reichenbach??? Or am I misrememberating?)


Your spot on :)
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby Zarius » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:28 pm

I wish Doctor Who would adapt Sherlock's 90-minute format, as Moffat's abudnence of ideas are allowed to flow and gradually grow within that space, much less catalouged like an Argos sampler.

About the only gripe I have is ASIB ends with something a fanfic writer would indulge in, for me Sherlock getting the better of Irene with the phone was the best spot to end the story on.

"Baskerville" was solid fun, loved Sherlock's "mind palace" and trolling Watson in the lab, was a TAD confused at the end when they showed Moriarty in prison, when did that happen? Answers will probably come next week
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Re: Sherlock series 2

Postby LizR » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:12 am

Zarius wrote:I wish Doctor Who would adapt Sherlock's 90-minute format, as Moffat's abudnence of ideas are allowed to flow and gradually grow within that space, much less catalouged like an Argos sampler.

Couldn't agree more. I've been saying something like this since 2005, I think the same applies to RTD - he would have been better writing to a longer format (and stretching himself less thinly, i.e. doing less stories but making the ones he did do have more meat on them).

Zarius wrote:About the only gripe I have is ASIB ends with something a fanfic writer would indulge in, for me Sherlock getting the better of Irene with the phone was the best spot to end the story on.

I know the ending of ASIB was pure - ah - well, it was the sort of thing I'd expect from RTD more than Moffat. Yet sometimes these things work, because the story that led up to them "earned" the writer (and the audience) a spot of self-indulgence. And I have to admit I was happy to give him that one, as it were, because it had the "feelgood factor" - something I didn't feel very often with Moffat's Who scripts.
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