SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

"Shaken, not stirred", "We're the Sweeney, son - and we haven't had any dinner" and all that jazz.

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:31 pm

I do miss Sean Connery and the original M, but I've found something to enjoy in pretty much every Bond film.
Bond films aren't high art, they're just fun.
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Thanks to donations from members I've been able to move Planet Mondas to a faster server. But I'm still working on further improvements. Ad Revenue covers the server fees, but not my time, so if you like you can buy me a coffee, which will help fuel me! Thanks in advance! Mat Sadler (matjkd)

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:02 pm

If Craig is a good "Bond" then Adam Sandler or Jennifer Lopez would be even better. Hell just grab anyone off the street. Why not Billie Piper?

Really. Craig is one of the worst casting jobs I have ever seen. Not only is he a dreary boring actor but he bares NO RESEMBLANCE TO THE CHARACTER CREATED BY IAN FLEMING.

You could just as easily call Craig Percy Meriweather or Biff Bullocks and it would make no difference.

SKYFALL was boring.
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:03 pm

feline1 wrote:I do miss Sean Connery and the original M, but I've found something to enjoy in pretty much every Bond film.
Bond films aren't high art, they're just fun.


I liked the part in SKYFALL when the end credits began to roll.
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:17 pm

I don't really see why you think Craig is so bad.
He's probably the most Connery-like of any of the others.
I mean, OK, he doesn't smoke and he has blonde hair, but apart from that I can fairly well believe him being the Bond from the books.
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby Heccypoo » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:22 pm

I thought Timothy Dalton was a good Bond.
Lawks-a-lordy, my bottom's on fire...
Heccypoo
 
 
 
Posts: 4821
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:09 pm
Location: Tracy Island

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:25 pm

He didn't really convince me that he was sexist enough. Fleming's Bond is much more rapey.
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:26 pm

While there are others....the main problem is James Bond has simply outlasted the period he can possibly function in. He fought in WW 2. MoneyPenny was a Wren. red herrings. Nazis. Organized crime. The Cold War etc etc etc.

The new films refuse to give the stories even a patina of resonance by acknowledging the Muslim threat or China so instead we have...like SKYFALL these internecine promotion squabbles within MI 6 and Bond brooding over his mum and dad or fighting non-existent corporationist villains actually called Mr White. Why not just have him fight the Blue Meanies and be done with it? It is all spin but no center.

This culture is intolerant of anything that is not them..........and since there is no there there to this culture......their art is, by its nature, just as empty. Even the leftist PC propaganda and SKYFALL is full of it....is boring and burbled with little passion or conviction.

It is all pointless.

Zombies.

A DEATH IN HEAVEN. SKYFALL. It is all of a piece. A generation jealous and angry because they can never match what their grandparents did on any level so they are going to vandalize their works and desecrate their graves.
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:33 pm

Heccypoo wrote:I thought Timothy Dalton was a good Bond.


Dalton was actually the character Fleming created. If you read the novels, Dalton is THAT James Bond. While I enjoy Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Lazenby, they were never the literary character.

This, ironically, why Dalton was never popular. He was playing James Bond while everyone wanted Sean Connery acting like Roger Moore.
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:42 pm

feline1 wrote:I don't really see why you think Craig is so bad.
He's probably the most Connery-like of any of the others.
I mean, OK, he doesn't smoke and he has blonde hair, but apart from that I can fairly well believe him being the Bond from the books.


Well Connery....who I like...was never the Bond from the books.

And Craig bares no resemblance to Connery. I have no idea what Craig is doing. He looks semiconscious and bored half the time. It is like they hired a reasonably articulate stuntman. Whenever he is on screen, the film just dies.

That scene with the chick at the bar in Hong Kong or wherever. The actress is just acting rings around him. She might as well be talking to an empty chair. In fact, except for Fienes, EVERYONE else in the damn movie seems to be sleepwalking through their parts and just want to get out of there and see what's on the telly that night.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby LizR » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:50 pm

bobmcpherson wrote:A DEATH IN HEAVEN. SKYFALL. It is all of a piece. A generation jealous and angry because they can never match what their grandparents did on any level so they are going to vandalize their works and desecrate their graves.

This has an uncomfortable ring of truth, especially when "what their grandparents did" involves creating a cutting-edge science fiction show or defeating the Nazis. Why don't the Bond film-makers just make their films in period, as historical drama? That's what Antony Horowitz says he's doing in the latest Bond book (which I am eager to read), becuase (paraphrasing) "I have no interest in modernising Bond or Holmes - it doesn't make sense to take the characters out of their time."

But then I consider Horowitz a genuine artist who respects anything he hommages . . . unlike Davies or Moffat and whoever is writing the Bond movies.

Mind you, I do think Connery tried to be the Bond of the books (though I can't remember the Dalton movies well enough to say if he succeeded better). He was suave and seductive and ruthless (though maybe not quite enough of a cypher - like Tintin, Bond was originally designed to be the blank the reader can fill in, around whom the story happens. Even the name was chosen to be boring, which nowadays seems ironic).
“The old maxim rendered true — there is never someone more socialist than a wealthy capitalist in a time of crisis” — Sir Roger Douglas

My crosswords are on my homepage & Android phones - install Alphacross and select "Māyā's Cryptic Puzzles" :D
User avatar
LizR
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 20281
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:01 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:36 pm

Much...if not all ..of what makes Bond in the novels and even in the films though the producers tried everything they could to obfuscate this come from WW 2/post War and Cold War assumptions. Fleming thought there was three great evils facing the World....Red herring, Organized Crime and leftover Nazism. ALL of his books/short stories feature one or more of those threats. Fleming even describes Blofeld as having eyes like Mussolini!!! The movies danced around this but they still make no sense out of that milleau. The movie THE SPY WHO LOVED ME is meaningless without the Cold War. The movie A VIEW TO A KILL is meaningless without reference to Joseph Mengle. Even SPECTRE has Communist/Nazi/Organized crime connotations.

Just what is the world threatening menace in SKYFALL??? M's upcoming retirement and Bond feeling sad about Mumsey. Silva has to be the most boring unmotivated villain out there. Basically a homosexual throwing a great hissy fit because mother does not love him best.

Even Elecktra King(from THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH) and Alec Trevalyin(from GOLDENEYE) who Silva is a combination of...........had more motivation AND more interesting plans.

SKYFALL's dialogue about how no nation is the enemy, it is all individuals in the shadows(Foreshadowing SPECTRE I suppose) is deranged. No China. No Iran. No Russia. No Cuba. No ISIS. So basically Bond's world is just threatened by nonaffiliated criminals and Bond is just a "stupid policeman."

Great. So why don't I just watch DRAGNET reruns???

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:24 pm

Bob, I think you're missing the point about EON's Bond films.

They never have been an attempt to slavishly "bring Fleming's books to the screen" - even Dr No has substantial plot changes.
The films quickly became a British cinema institution in their own right, and set the benchmark for new kinds of fast paced editing, special effects and location work (and those glamorous Bond girls). They're cinematic (VISUAL) spectacle. They've never been trying to make serious political points, so rigid adherence Fleming's post war/cold war setting quickly became superfluous.
From "You Only Live Twice" onwards, they freely ditched as much Fleming plot as they saw fit, and based the movie around what stunts and locations it would feature.

The books are still all in print for anyone to read who wants them.

If you want to immerse yourself in period politics there's always John le Carré...

Personally I find a lot of amusing nuance in Daniel Craig's performance, maybe you just need to get some women to watch it with you to point it all out :lol:
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:28 pm

bobmcpherson wrote:A DEATH IN HEAVEN. SKYFALL. It is all of a piece. A generation jealous and angry because they can never match what their grandparents did on any level so they are going to vandalize their works and desecrate their graves.


Barbara Broccoli (daughter of one of the original EON producers) & her husband Michael G Wilson seem, in interviews, to be very much respectful of the legacy of what went before and always striving to develop it, if you ask me.
Not that every new film is as good as the best 60s or 70s ones - but not every 60s or 70s film was equally as good either! Is Man With the Golden Gun or DIamonds are FOrever as good as Dr No or etc etc etc?
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby iank » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:38 pm

bobmcpherson wrote:
A DEATH IN HEAVEN. SKYFALL. It is all of a piece. A generation jealous and angry because they can never match what their grandparents did on any level so they are going to vandalize their works and desecrate their graves.


I kind of agree with this too. In a sense, real Bond, much like real Doctor Who, died in 1989.
(Doctor Who) has been hijacked and redefined as a lucrative modern franchise. They've literally taken a square peg and painfully made it fit a round hole by taking enormous liberties with much of its fundamental essence. There's no turning back now.

- ozymandias, The Leisure Hive 2010
User avatar
iank
 
 
 
Posts: 6028
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:40 am

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:55 pm

Really? You think "View to a Kill", which a wrinkled Roger Moore in his 60s shagging Grace Jones, a plot that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Fleming short story other than it has a few scenes in Paris, and Duran Duran doing the music, is "true Bond"? :lol:
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:04 pm

No offense Feline but if I need a "woman to explain" Craig's "performance" then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with THAT performance. It is like saying I need a sailor preferably a Seaman 2 Class to explain Julie Andrews performance in MARY POPPINS.
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby The Nimon » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:20 pm

feline1 wrote:Bob, I think you're missing the point about EON's Bond films.

They never have been an attempt to slavishly "bring Fleming's books to the screen" - even Dr No has substantial plot changes.
The films quickly became a British cinema institution in their own right, and set the benchmark for new kinds of fast paced editing, special effects and location work (and those glamorous Bond girls). They're cinematic (VISUAL) spectacle. They've never been trying to make serious political points, so rigid adherence Fleming's post war/cold war setting quickly became superfluous.
From "You Only Live Twice" onwards, they freely ditched as much Fleming plot as they saw fit, and based the movie around what stunts and locations it would feature.

The books are still all in print for anyone to read who wants them.

If you want to immerse yourself in period politics there's always John le Carré...

Personally I find a lot of amusing nuance in Daniel Craig's performance, maybe you just need to get some women to watch it with you to point it all out :lol:


Basically what Feline says. The Spy Who Loves Me has nothing to do with the book at all, apart from the title. This is mainly down to Fleming not letting them so they used the title and made a totally original story.
The Judge Judy of Planet Mondax
User avatar
The Nimon
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8236
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:24 am

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby The Nimon » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:23 pm

feline1 wrote:
bobmcpherson wrote:A DEATH IN HEAVEN. SKYFALL. It is all of a piece. A generation jealous and angry because they can never match what their grandparents did on any level so they are going to vandalize their works and desecrate their graves.


Barbara Broccoli (daughter of one of the original EON producers) & her husband Michael G Wilson seem, in interviews, to be very much respectful of the legacy of what went before and always striving to develop it, if you ask me.
Not that every new film is as good as the best 60s or 70s ones - but not every 60s or 70s film was equally as good either! Is Man With the Golden Gun or DIamonds are FOrever as good as Dr No or etc etc etc?


I should just point out here that Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson are half brother and sister and not married.
The Judge Judy of Planet Mondax
User avatar
The Nimon
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8236
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:24 am

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby bobmcpherson » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 pm

Wilson is also the son of Lewis Wilson....the first man to play Batman..................
bobmcpherson
 
 
 
Posts: 4859
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: SPECTRE and other James Bond stuff

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:36 pm

The Nimon wrote:
I should just point out here that Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson are half brother and sister and not married.



Oh, my bad ;)
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Return to Spies, Sleuths and Coppers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests