Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Here comes the bride....

10.
30
21%
9.
41
29%
8.
19
13%
7.
25
18%
6.
13
9%
5.
8
6%
4.
0
No votes
3.
1
1%
2.
0
No votes
1.
5
4%
 
Total votes : 142

Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:31 pm

in other words, I'm highly skeptical that the ostensible 'character motivations' presented in the the oh-so-very-modernist multi-folded-plot loops were credible...
...there seemed to be little real reason for the characters to be subject to the same dramatic irony that the viewer was, other than to confuse the viewer with their own in-joke. Or something. With is kinda post-post-modern. Perhaps.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Shaving Foamasi » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:57 pm

Moffat started this set up in Silence In The Library and, as such, it wasn't a bad pay off. Not sure if it was more to do with debunking the whole RTD approach of Doctor Who where the Doctor is portrayed as this huge intergalactic hero who saves worlds, solar systems, universes or just telling the story of the relationship between the Doctor and the Ponds.

The former definitely comes into play with the Doctor's comment about him becoming too well known and also the set up where it looked as though River was going to say that that his whole Universe of friends were not going to stand by and let him die and then for that to be rubbished by the Doctor doing something himself on a much smaller scale. That scene just made me think that Moffat obviously hated RTD's Last of the Time Lords finale of Martha getting the whole world to intone the word Doctor to save the planet and wanted to debunk it.

Loved the Brigadier's send off - in a way so much more moving than just putting up a dedication to Nicholas Courtney.

I liked it but it didn't make much sense. After 32 series or thereabouts - for me I see no reason to constantly make stories that will appeal to the casual viewer - there has to be some things for people who have watched the series throughout - so comments that the casual viewer would have been lost are irrelevant for me. A casual viewer would have been lost by the final episode of Blakes 7 or Ashes to Ashes. So what?

7/10
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby chesterfield » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Complete and utter cack!

1/10.

Where was the plot? As far as I can tell there wasn't one. After all the build up major plot points were resolved with quick throwaway fixes and all the big questions glossed over and left unanswered.

Who said "Silence will fall" at the end of series five and why and how did the TARDIS blow up?

How did the Doctor start to regenerate in The Impossible Astronaut if he was a robot and why were the carrot strangler so willing to help the Doctor fake his death?

How did the fake Doctor "dying" cancel out the fact the real Doctor dying was supposed to be a fixed point in time that couldn't be re-written?

Who are the Silence and why were they trying to kill the Doctor?

Who was Madame Kovarian and why was she helping the Silence to kill the Doctor?

Again we're expected to invest in a story that we're then told didn't actually happen because in typical Moffat timey-wimey fashion most of the plot went up in a puff of smoke when the timelines were cancelled out. For me this was little more than fan fiction on a big budget.

Anti-climatic drivel.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:01 pm

chesterfield wrote:
How did the fake Doctor dying cancel out the fact the real Doctor dying was supposed to be a fixed point in time that couldn't be re-written?.


that's a very good point!
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby markhuk » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:10 pm

feline1 wrote:
chesterfield wrote:
How did the fake Doctor dying cancel out the fact the real Doctor dying was supposed to be a fixed point in time that couldn't be re-written?.


that's a very good point!


Because everyone believed the Doctor died - thats the fixed point - the apparent death of the Doctor, as far as the universe is concerned he is dead; just because he's not dead it doesn't alter the fact that the rest of the universe think this is where he dies.

Personally I thought it was a really accessible stand alone story that just happened to answer most of the questions from the season.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:16 pm

markhuk wrote:Because everyone believed the Doctor died - thats the fixed point - the apparent death of the Doctor, as far as the universe is concerned he is dead; .


hmmmmmm. Not sure I buy that!

And WHY was it a "fixed point" anyways? purely for dramatic "OMG!"-ish plot contrivance?
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby chesterfield » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:36 pm

markhuk wrote:
feline1 wrote:
chesterfield wrote:
How did the fake Doctor dying cancel out the fact the real Doctor dying was supposed to be a fixed point in time that couldn't be re-written?.


that's a very good point!


Because everyone believed the Doctor died - thats the fixed point - the apparent death of the Doctor, as far as the universe is concerned he is dead; just because he's not dead it doesn't alter the fact that the rest of the universe think this is where he dies.

Personally I thought it was a really accessible stand alone story that just happened to answer most of the questions from the season.


It's not people that have to be fooled into thinking the real Doctor has died it's time itself, presented here as a scientific reality not a person who can be tricked.

In the Final Destination films would Death have been tricked by a good waxwork?
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Mike Nuttall » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:41 pm

Bonkers, brilliant and a lot of fun!

10/10.

I was going to give it 8/10 but it gets an extra point for Dorium being in it and an extra point for the lovely Brigadier scene.

Full review to come :)
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:56 pm

it seems to me that the very notion of the Doctor dying being "fixed point in time" is daft anyways and contradicts the eminently sensible concepts presented in 'Inferno' about "an infinite number of choices... and ergo an infinite number of parallel universes ... so free will is not an illusion after all"

- the Silence people DECIDED to bump off the Doctor.
So why would that make it a "fixed point in time"? If they were persauded to CHANGE THEIR MINDS and not kill him (as, indeed, River Song did, decided she didn't want to!) then the future would be changed, and he'd not be killed.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Koquillion » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:00 pm

A great finale and Matt Smith was brilliant!

It was a demanding episode but it worked for the most part and looked amazing.

8/10
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby actonsteve » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:05 pm

Timey wimey twiddle twaddle. Didn't work. The show is going to lose viewers if it carries on like this. The narratie was all over the place and it set up so many new questions the viewer felt excluded from the story. But its greatest crime was it was forgettable. There was nothing there to remember. No great set pieces. It was a story arc presented as a story. Last years had a clear linear narrative. You could follow it without help. This one needed more explanations and narrative. It needed a tough script editor. I am a Moffat fan but he is having too much fun on his own in the toyshop and is excluding the viewer.

The best stories this season have been those without the story arc ie Doctors Wife, God Complex, the Girl who waited. These will be worth getting the boxset for..

This was all plot points and no story... :11th Doctor:
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby aggedor » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:11 pm

actonsteve wrote:Timey wimey twiddle twaddle. Didn't work. The show is going to lose viewers if it carries on like this. The narratie was all over the place and it set up so many new questions the viewer felt excluded from the story. But its greatest crime was it was forgettable. There was nothing there to remember. No great set pieces. It was a story arc presented as a story. Last years had a clear linear narrative. You could follow it without help. This one needed more explanations and narrative. It needed a tough script editor. I am a Moffat fan but he is having too much fun on his own in the toyshop and is excluding the viewer.

The best stories this season have been those without the story arc ie Doctors Wife, God Complex, the Girl who waited. These will be worth getting the boxset for..

This was all plot points and no story... :11th Doctor:


I liked it but I've got to agree with a lot of what you say here.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby actonsteve » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:12 pm

chesterfield wrote:

How did the Doctor start to regenerate in The Impossible Astronaut if he was a robot a.


Blooming good point. :6doctor:
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby John Johnson » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:16 pm

The carrot strangler is a machine and they simulated it by flushing the plasma vents :mrgreen:
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Solon » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:25 pm

Sorry couldn't make head nor tail of it :?
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby chesterfield » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:27 pm

Solon wrote:Sorry couldn't make head nor tail of it :?


I doubt you'll be the only one.

And why didn't they kill off River Song.

Please no more River Song. PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. JUST NO.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Whovian » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:32 am

Yes. And no. Oh dear.... wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey scripty-wonky :P
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:54 am

Robert Watkins wrote:Is every Moffat season going to end with the universe exploding or the Doctor dying?


yeah was it just me, or was that basically what happened last year too?
Or was it the WHOLE POINT that that happened last year too? (as the same people were making it happen?) or?

The problem is I don't really care cos whatever logical conclusion I arrive at, it'll be "lol! timey-wimey!"-ed back out of existence....
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby Kajaboy » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:00 am

chesterfield wrote:Where was the plot? As far as I can tell there wasn't one. After all the build up major plot points were resolved with quick throwaway fixes and all the big questions glossed over and left unanswered.

Who said "Silence will fall" at the end of series five and why and how did the TARDIS blow up?

How did the Doctor start to regenerate in The Impossible Astronaut if he was a robot and why were the carrot strangler so willing to help the Doctor fake his death?

How did the fake Doctor "dying" cancel out the fact the real Doctor dying was supposed to be a fixed point in time that couldn't be re-written?

Who are the Silence and why were they trying to kill the Doctor?

Who was Madame Kovarian and why was she helping the Silence to kill the Doctor?

Again we're expected to invest in a story that we're then told didn't actually happen because in typical Moffat timey-wimey fashion most of the plot went up in a puff of smoke when the timelines were cancelled out. For me this was little more than fan fiction on a big budget.


I want to give it a good mark out of 10 because i enjoyed it a lot. However I was thinking many of the same questions so it kind of falls to bits. I will have to give it another airing before I can mark it clearly.
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Re: Rate "The Wedding of River Song"

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:11 am

what it kinda reminded me of as well as 'The Atrocity Exhibition'
was when I got dragged along to see a movie of The Da Vinci Code,
and it was this kinda ridicuous breakneck story of continual preposterous plot-twists than every 10 minutes,
they'd declare that everything was the complete opposite of what you'd just been led to believe...
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