Love and Monsters: Is it really that bad?

What do you think?

LAM is the best thing since Shakespeare laid down his pen
2
6%
Staggering...astounding (in a good way)
8
23%
Jolly good
3
9%
It was OK
4
11%
A bit naff
1
3%
Not bad considering who wrote it
0
No votes
Staggering...astounding (in a bad way)
5
14%
The worst thing RTD has ever scrawled in crayon
12
34%
 
Total votes: 35
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The Krynoid Man
 
 
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Now as I've mentioned several time before in my opinion the top 3 worst episodes of all time are:
1) Love and Monsters
2) Warriors of the Deep
3) Silver Nemesis

But awhile ago I watched L&M again, and I didn't think it was that bad. Not good, but I couldn't see why I listed it as the worst. Warriors of the Deep is needlessly nasty and grim and a Doctor with a "holier than thou" attitude that even Tennant would be shocked by. Just thinking about it is unpleasant. Silver Nemesis is incredibly dull and boring. The only time I'd ever watch it again is if I had insomnia.
Love and Monsters main sin is that it's just awkward to watch. The whole episode has this jokey tone, but it's not funny so it just comes off as bizarre.
I remember Chap with the Wings saying he thinks it's actually one of the greatest pieces of television of all time. His explanation for this was that he interpreted most of the episode being in Elton's head. Here's the exact quote:
chap with wings wrote: My theory about what really happened in Love and Monsters is as follows:

The most important line is right at the end when Elton says “We forget because we must.”

As a boy, Elton Pope finds the dead body of his mother and sees the Doctor for the first time, his world is destroyed and he blocks the memory of the death of his mother out of his mind.

The grown up Elton makes a video diary of his life, or rather, he tells a story of how he would like his life to be, the only thing that happened as seen is when Elton is talking DIRECTLY to camera, and we see the white borders to show that the camera is recording, everything else is from Elton’s point of view, and not necessarily exactly how it happened.

Elton joins Linda and meets the LINDA gang, he has feelings for Ursula Blake, but is too shy to say anything, Victor Kennedy joins, gets a lead as to where the Doctor could be, Elton goes to investigate, but is utterly terrified, we then see Eltons version of events, a comedy runabout, his way of coping with the terror.

I also believe that the events with Jackie never took place as Elton portrays them, she probably caught him and sent him away with a flea in his ear for stalking her, again, Elton’s fragile mind makes a story up.

Victor Kennedy is so intense that one by one the members of LINDA leave, Elton cant stand this so he literally Demonises him and creates the fictitious Absorbaloff to justify their disappearance, its appearance is childish and not very convincing, a generic “Scary Alien”, there is now only Ursula left, and as she leaves Elton makes a fumbled attempt to ask her out, she turns him down and HE not the Absorbaloff chases Ursula.

The Doctor arrives as Ursula storms off, Rose gives him a piece of her mind, the Doctor reminds Elton of the first time they met and it all comes back to him, the horror of a child losing his mother which has ruined his life.

Now, my theory of the paving slab, this is the spot where Elton last saw Ursula, so as a memento he digs it up and takes it home.

Remember my theory that the only real thing we see is when we see the camera recording, we never see Ursula in the slab captured on camera.

So in the end, Elton is still dreaming and making sense of his lot in a world that does not care.

So there you have it, my theory on Love and Monsters, and it is only my theory, I probably watch too much David Lynch and read too much into things, but I love it.

I laughed this off at the time, but thinking about it now, he may have a point. Elton's behaviour and the speaks make him come off a bit like he has aspergers (I've got it myself, so I have a pretty good idea of how someone with it would act). In fact the bizarre tone I mentioned earlier seems like it's come from the imagination of someone who doesn't quite understand the world he lives in.
Having looked at the episode the way Chap with the Wings looks at, I did genuinely think that maybe this is a misunderstood masterpiece and RTD2 is actually a genius. What he described was one of the best pieces of television I'd ever heard of.

Then I remembered what made me so angry all those years ago. The final 10 minutes. The Doctor acts completely out of character in this. He shows up, does nothing and forces a woman to live forever as a slab of cement, but it's okay! AT LEAST SHE GETS TO PLEASURE HER BOYFRIEND!!!!!! I'M SURE THAT' MAKES IT FAR BETTER FOR HER!!!!! WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HE DIES, SHE'S GOT NO ONE ELSE. IS SHE JUST GOING TO SPEND THE REST OF ETERNITY ON HER OWN!!!!!
Sorry about that, but it just makes the Doctor come off as a terrible person. I mean, you can talk about all these hidden meanings that may or may not be there, or you can say that it's just a bad episode, but when The Doctor, a character millions of children look up to as a hero, pretty much says "sort it out yourself, I can't be bothered", it's completely unforgivable in my opinion. The real Doctor would never do that.

So in answer to the question "is Love and Monsters really that bad?" yes, it is.
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Is Love and Monsters really that bad?

No, it's worse.....
Now that we all know about the rude bits, aren't they rude? And as we get older, they get ruder and ruder. :oops:
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A simple yes or no would have sufficed 'Krynoid Man'. It would've saved you all that effort!. :mrgreen:

The story 'lost' me from the moment I saw that silly Benny Hill-esque scene at the beginning with the Doctor and Rose, being chased by The Hoix. I thought Peter Kay was unfortunately rubbish in it and overall the story was far too jokey and cartoony for my liking.

And that ending,with the implication of oral sex with a human paving slab thingy,well that sort of thing might be okay in Torchwood but has no place in Who IMO.

This story is total crapola for me. :)
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What is there left to say about Love & Monsters.....?

.....the horror..... the horror.....
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Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.
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paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
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I rather like it. It was quite fun. As for the love life thing, when I saw it the first time round I just thought it meant he took her to the cinema and they kissed a bit. I certainly didn't think that he was getting oral pleasure from a slab of concrete. It wasn't all that think either so unless he was hung like dormouse the oral would have been rubbish anyway. :?
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Personally I think it's a case of a gloriously clever script, very reminiscent of RTD's non-Who work, let down by the execution and the unfortunate performance of Peter Kay. The important point here is that we have an unreliable narrator, and the ending with the paving slab is the final nod and wink towards this. Having said that, Ed's theory as above is really rather brilliant, and takes things much further than I ever did!

On a less meta note, I love the subtext about fandom, whether of Doctor Who or otherwise.
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PMount1959 wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
I can see the subtext, I just don't care about the subtext. It's crap, because it's utterly ridiculous and the ending makes no sense whatsoever. It's an insult to the viewer's intelligence.
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tony ingram wrote:
PMount1959 wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
I can see the subtext, I just don't care about the subtext. It's cr*p, because it's utterly ridiculous and the ending makes no sense whatsoever. It's an insult to the viewer's intelligence.
The ending makes total sense- it's the final confirmation that we have an unreliable narrator. It may be naughty but it's rather clever.
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Llamastrangler wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
PMount1959 wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
I can see the subtext, I just don't care about the subtext. It's cr*p, because it's utterly ridiculous and the ending makes no sense whatsoever. It's an insult to the viewer's intelligence.
The ending makes total sense- it's the final confirmation that we have an unreliable narrator. It may be naughty but it's rather clever.
I've heard that theory before, but nothing seen on screen suggests that we are not meant to take that scene at face value. If that's what they were aiming for, they failed to get the point across to most of the audience.
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PMount1959 wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
If you read my original post you'll see that I saw the sub text, I liked the sub text, but that couldn't save this turd.
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No, it's a work of genius.
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Reading some of the comments here I might be tempted to watch it again. I only watched it on TX, maybe after this time, and knowing what to expect, it might grow on me. At the time one of my main problems with it was that the Doctor was hardly in it and it would have been better centred on Jackie and what it was like for her waiting at home. I suppose that it can't be any worse than Fear Her.
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Kajaboy wrote:I rather like it. It was quite fun. As for the love life thing, when I saw it the first time round I just thought it meant he took her to the cinema and they kissed a bit. I certainly didn't think that he was getting oral pleasure from a slab of concrete. It wasn't all that think either so unless he was hung like dormouse the oral would have been rubbish anyway. :?
Eltons porn slab video :lol:
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PMount1959 wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Classic. It pokes gentle fun at fandom in a way that is affectionate, and not the annoyance that the kid in Greatest Show is. Ok the last bit is out of place in family viewing at Saturday tea time, but everything else is great, including Peter Kay, and the idea of him having a nothern accent as the monster and not the human.

I love the fact they use ELO music, a big favourite of mine, in such a way. I wish we'd spent our local group meetings jamming to ELO! It's like a cross between The Twilight Zone and a sf Play for Today. And there is something about it that suggests that it shouldn't be taken too literally.

A very interesting experiment for Doctor Who, and hugely enjoyable. RTD was right about one thing. It is an episode that divides fandom. But that's not a bad thing. And it does seem to be like Marmite. It's either loved or hated. And I love it. Full marks Russell, with just a point deducted for the above naughty reason.

This. 'Love & Monsters' is an episode which most 'fans' of the series absolutely misunderstand because they can't (or won't) see the subtext. It's glorious television.
Spot on.
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chap with wings wrote:No, it's a work of genius.
Absolutely.
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Ok i watched this again today, after a 8 year gap. It's not as bad as i remembered. The opening teaser was good and the start of the story was rather engaging but when it got to the Peter Kay as the monster part I just thought it lost its way a bit, Kay's performance didn't help, neither did the fart and Oral sex gags. I liked the whole fun group being taken over by someone more obsessed thing, it's gone up a few notches in my estimates but i wouldn't call it the best. I would rank it above Rings of Doo-dah and Fear Her though.
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The Nimon wrote:I would rank it above Rings of Doo-dah
:cry:
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Tanlee wrote:
The Nimon wrote:I would rank it above Rings of Doo-dah
:cry:
Sorry it's just the way I feel.I love most of the Moffat stuff but Rings just didn't do it for me.
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