Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby bingo99 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:19 pm

I think the Moffat bashing threads need some re-balance. Though I say the following not just for that reason, but because I genuinely believe what I'm about to say. So, here goes:

The Tenth Doctor was worst in the history of the show. A soppy, self-obsessed adolescent with no authority. This wasn't The Doctor, it was an escaped cast member from Metal Mickey or The Chuckle Brothers. His humour was at a Timothy Mallet level of imbecility. The singing the theme to Ghostbusters, the gelled hair, pining over blondey McEastenders. All the time being praised to the skies by nob'eads like Jonathan Ross for the kind of over acting panto performance JNT era stars got quite rightly lambasted for and consistently dumbed down, anti-intellectual scripting with sh*te plots. With a hit rate of about one classic every two seasons I give you, ladies and gentleman, the worst era in Doctor Who's history.

On the plus side, Tennant put in a great performance as John Smith, if only he'd been allowed to play it like that all the time.

There, redressed the balance.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby steamhead » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:40 pm

I think for me he was a good actor and I enjoyed him in the role, but both he and Chris never convinced me he was the same "Doctor" as 1 to 8. At the time I just put that down to the more modern production techniques just making things "feel different", but having seen Matt come in and nail being "The Doctor" within minutes I've now realised this isn't the case.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby LizR » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:34 pm

Difficult one. My personal feeling is that he didn't really nail it. Ditto Chris although I thought he came closer, and having recently seen "The Happiness Salesman" I think he could have done it, given the material. The real problem was the showrunner, imho - Tennant's a decent enough actor but may have become lazy in the role after a while.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby LizR » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:33 am

That is certainly the received wisdom, and although I haven't watched any Davison or McCoy recently, it does seem to fit with what I remember. Not so sure about McGann though.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Nimon » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:23 pm

I like Tennant as much as Matt Smith, I think they are both on a high level. There were a few problems though with DT which are listed below.

He did seem to gurn a bit too much near the end
The over the top bursting into tears got on my nerves a bit near the end. I love the bit at the end of Doomsday when he sheds that one tear but really it should have been left there. After that the flood gates, no pud intended, were thrown open and the Doctor seemed to be bursting into tears every five minutes.
His regeneration, five minutes into the yawn inducing scene of him going back to visit all his past comapions i was screaming at the screen for him to go. Then we had to sit through the over the top and soppy 'I don't want to go' rubbish as he blows up the Tardis for some strange reason. Instead of going out with a bang he went out with a wimper and thats all RTD's fault. I would have liked to remmember the 10th Doctor as the hero he was not the wimp he turned out to be
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:25 pm

Wrong, wrong & wrong.

You do enjoy "poking a crab with a stick" Bingo :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tennant took me to highs and lows that no other incarnation of the Doctor has ever done, his performance was heartbreaking, energetic, frightening, spellbinding. We will never see his like again, they broke the mould with Tennant.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Nimon » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:44 pm

chap with wings wrote:Wrong, wrong & wrong.

You do enjoy "poking a crab with a stick" Bingo :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tennant took me to highs and lows that no other incarnation of the Doctor has ever done, his performance was heartbreaking, energetic, frightening, spellbinding. We will never see his like again, they broke the mould with Tennant.


Heartbreaking: Yes to see a good Doctor wasted
Energetic: yes moving to fast to fit some plot in
Frightening: How people could swallow the rubbish he had to work with
Spellbinding: to watch the car crash which were series 4 and the specials

Yep i agree on all 4 there, Are you not sure you don't mean the mould was broken before the 10th Doctor was made :lol:

As I've saiod before, it wasn't Tennants fault, he was a good Doctor, it was just the rubbish he had to work with. Thank goodness Doctor Who has got someone who knows what to do with the show now, if only he would have stayed on another series then it would have been a diffrent matter ;)
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby bingo99 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:04 am

chap with wings wrote:Tennant took me to highs and lows that no other incarnation of the Doctor has ever done, his performance was heartbreaking, energetic, frightening, spellbinding. We will never see his like again, they broke the mould with Tennant.

Hyperbolic claims by his fans, that's another one.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby LizR » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:00 pm

bingo99 wrote:With a hit rate of about one classic every two seasons I give you, ladies and gentleman, the worst era in Doctor Who's history.

You forgot to mention the "lonely god" stuff he was lumbered with, which made him not only a soppy, self-obsessed adolescent with an unaccountable kink for stupid apes, but also suffering from "Superman syndrome" - making everything look too easy. After a while you know he'll fix everything with a wave of a magic wand, rather than through something that makes the audience think "ooh, that was clever!" Instead we got "the wrath of the time lord was terrible to behold" - which it was, but not in the sense intended.

But honestly, I don't blame Tennant, it was RTD's fault. He needed to go on a plot construction course (or several) and be told very firmly that just making everything over-emotional doesn't make a satisfying story for anyone with half a brain.

(Chap with wings excepted, of course. :) )
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby ianj » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:36 pm

Two words, One name. Sylvester Mc Crap.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Kajaboy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:49 pm

LizR wrote:You forgot to mention the "lonely god" stuff he was lumbered with...

"Dumbos think that I'm turning the Doctor into God..."
-Russell T Davies (The Writers Tale- The Final Chapter)

That's told you. :lol:
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Nimon » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Kajaboy wrote:
LizR wrote:You forgot to mention the "lonely god" stuff he was lumbered with...

"Dumbos think that I'm turning the Doctor into God..."
-Russell T Davies (The Writers Tale- The Final Chapter)

That's told you. :lol:



Just like the Dumbos believing RTD's scripts are any good because he told us so on Confidential every week :lol:
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby LizR » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:02 am

Kajaboy wrote:
LizR wrote:You forgot to mention the "lonely god" stuff he was lumbered with...

"Dumbos think that I'm turning the Doctor into God..."
-Russell T Davies (The Writers Tale- The Final Chapter)

That's told you. :lol:

The poor misunderstood thing! Oh, how we have misjudged him...bring me my sack cloth and ashes!

Or, then again, perhaps we should look at how he attempts to justify himself before we make up our minds. Out of his own mouth, somewhat muffled by the foot he's inserted into it, here is RTD explaining why we don't appreciate his towering genius...

Russell T Davies wrote:I can see how annoying that looks. I can see how maddening it must be, for some people. Especially if you’re imposing really classical script structures and templates on that episode, even unconsciously. I must look like a vandal, a kid or an amateur… The simple fact is, all those things were planned. All of them were my choice. They’re not lazy, clumsy or desperate. They’re chosen. I can see more traditional ways of telling those stories, but I’m not interested. I think the stuff that you gain from writing in this way – the shock, the whirlwind, the freedom, the exhilaration – is worth the world. I’ve got this sort of tumbling, freewheeling style that somersaults along, with everything happening now - not later, not before, but now, now, now. I’ve made a Doctor Who that exists in the present tense. It’s happening now, right in front of your eyes! If you don’t like it, if you don’t join in with it then… blimey, these episodes must be nonsensical. But those classical structures can be seen in Primeval, in Demons, in Merlin, in all of them – and yet we stand with millions more viewers. And I think that’s partly why.


Because other TV shows aren't written in the present tense, are they? You can't see what's happening in front of you in other programmes, can you - let's face it, that isn't what television is all about. And as for those "classical structures" like characterisation, plot construction, conflict, drama, pacing, climax and resolution, well just because every good writer throughout history has adhered to them, that doesn't mean that rules weren't made to be broken.

Poor misunderstood genius.

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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby bingo99 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:15 am

LizR wrote:
Kajaboy wrote:
LizR wrote:You forgot to mention the "lonely god" stuff he was lumbered with...

"Dumbos think that I'm turning the Doctor into God..."
-Russell T Davies (The Writers Tale- The Final Chapter)

That's told you. :lol:

You should hear what he says in an effort to justify his inability to write a decent story. If your aren't careful I may quote it...aw, why not?

RTD wrote:I can see how annoying that looks. I can see how maddening it must be, for some people. Especially if you’re imposing really classical script structures and templates on that episode, even unconsciously. I must look like a vandal, a kid or an amateur… The simple fact is, all those things were planned. All of them were my choice. They’re not lazy, clumsy or desperate. They’re chosen. I can see more traditional ways of telling those stories, but I’m not interested. I think the stuff that you gain from writing in this way – the shock, the whirlwind, the freedom, the exhilaration – is worth the world. I’ve got this sort of tumbling, freewheeling style that somersaults along, with everything happening now - not later, not before, but now, now, now. I’ve made a Doctor Who that exists in the present tense. It’s happening now, right in front of your eyes! If you don’t like it, if you don’t join in with it then… blimey, these episodes must be nonsensical. But those classical structures can be seen in Primeval, in Demons, in Merlin, in all of them – and yet we stand with millions more viewers. And I think that’s partly why.


Because other TV shows aren't written in the present tense, are they? You can't see what's happening in front of you in other programmes, can you - I mean, that isn't what television is all about, is it? And as for those "classical structures" like characterisation, plot construction, conflict, drama, pacing, climax and resolution, well just because every good writer throughout history has adhered to them, that doesn't mean that rules weren't made to be broken.

Poor misunderstood genius that he is.

PS:

But he does classically structure his scripts in the set up. Its just when it comes to his conclusions that everything turns to sh... sorry, I mean we get his tumbling, freewheeling style. Sounds of The Drums followed by that episode is the most clear example. I’m sure its sheer coincidence this joyful anarchy seems to happen at that part that’s most difficult to write, a satisfying conclusion.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby LizR » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:24 am

[quote="bingo99]I’m sure its sheer coincidence this joyful anarchy seems to happen at that part that’s most difficult to write, a satisfying conclusion.[/quote]
Isn't it, though? Although to be honest he doesn't always manage to set things up very well, either. We sometimes have the "stop the action while I tell my life story" trope, for example, or the "stand still while I drop an anvil on your head" approach to putting messages across.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Kajaboy » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:19 am

LizR wrote:Because other TV shows aren't written in the present tense, are they? You can't see what's happening in front of you in other programmes, can you - let's face it, that isn't what television is all about. And as for those "classical structures" like characterisation, plot construction, conflict, drama, pacing, climax and resolution, well just because every good writer throughout history has adhered to them, that doesn't mean that rules weren't made to be broken.

Poor misunderstood genius.


The thing with every RTD script is, I have been able to follow what's going on from start to finish without having to watch it 3 or 4 times to make sense of it all. Yes some of the endings have involved what some might term a magic wand, not me, but it's always based on something that was there in the story. Yes it is rather handy to have just the thing you need right in front of you but.........at least it's there and doesn't feel like a huge bending of the rules. You can see these sorts of things in almost any story from 1963 onwards.

The Big Bang has to be the single worst conclusion to any story in the shows history.....TV Movie aside. I can't even begin to list the faults with it. DWM did a feature recently that tried to explain why it wasn't a huge cheat and the whole timey wimey bit but all it did was highlight even more problems that I missed. I'm normally pretty good at explaining away problems with continuity or holes in the plot, I have a lovely idea regarding Mel at the end of Trial and why Romana was able to use up so many regenerations for comedy effect, but The Big Bang has no logical answers. I have to wonder if Moffat accidently handed over a script that had been written by one of kids.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Kajaboy » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:23 am

The Nimon wrote:Just like the Dumbos believing RTD's scripts are any good because he told us so on Confidential every week :lol:


I thought they were great when I saw them. It had nothing to do with anything he said or did. He has also said how great Queer As Folk is and I thought it was a pile of horse manure.......a steaming pile at that. The Americans managed to make it a very enjoyable show.

I do miss him on Confidential tho. :(
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Nimon » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:13 am

Kajaboy wrote:
The Nimon wrote:Just like the Dumbos believing RTD's scripts are any good because he told us so on Confidential every week :lol:


I thought they were great when I saw them. It had nothing to do with anything he said or did. He has also said how great Queer As Folk is and I thought it was a pile of horse manure.......a steaming pile at that. The Americans managed to make it a very enjoyable show.

I do miss him on Confidential tho. :(


Never said you did, just a harmless joke not really directed at anyone. There are a few of his stories i really enjoy, watching him on Confidential was fun just to se how he was going to big himself up that week. The words Epic and feisty did seem to come from his lips a lot from what i remmeber :D

On a serious note though, you can't alway take on face value what RTD says
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Nimon » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:37 am

Kajaboy wrote:
LizR wrote:Because other TV shows aren't written in the present tense, are they? You can't see what's happening in front of you in other programmes, can you - let's face it, that isn't what television is all about. And as for those "classical structures" like characterisation, plot construction, conflict, drama, pacing, climax and resolution, well just because every good writer throughout history has adhered to them, that doesn't mean that rules weren't made to be broken.

Poor misunderstood genius.


The thing with every RTD script is, I have been able to follow what's going on from start to finish without having to watch it 3 or 4 times to make sense of it all. Yes some of the endings have involved what some might term a magic wand, not me, but it's always based on something that was there in the story. Yes it is rather handy to have just the thing you need right in front of you but.........at least it's there and doesn't feel like a huge bending of the rules. You can see these sorts of things in almost any story from 1963 onwards.

The Big Bang has to be the single worst conclusion to any story in the shows history.....TV Movie aside. I can't even begin to list the faults with it. DWM did a feature recently that tried to explain why it wasn't a huge cheat and the whole timey wimey bit but all it did was highlight even more problems that I missed. I'm normally pretty good at explaining away problems with continuity or holes in the plot, I have a lovely idea regarding Mel at the end of Trial and why Romana was able to use up so many regenerations for comedy effect, but The Big Bang has no logical answers. I have to wonder if Moffat accidently handed over a script that had been written by one of kids.



So you're saying that the end of Last Of The Time Lords makes perfect sense? The Doctor is floating about, all god like, in a blue light because all of the people down of earth are chanting his name and his tuned himself into 12 satellites, that makes perfect sense? RTD then goes on to rip the end off from the TV movie by turning time back and it never happened. Journeys End, The Doctor uses the Tardis to tow earth back to it orignal place in space and doesn't cause giant earth quakes and tidle waves killing all on earth, and that makes perfect sense? Farting of the ways, Rose absorbs the Time vortex and waves her hands about a bit, all god like, to save the day and that makes perfect sense? The end of Doomsday is the only one that does make any kind of sense, and i still want to know why Rose's dad wasn't sucked into the void considering he appeared right in front of the crack and he was covered in the void stuff when he came to save her, The day she died... oh she didn't. when did these happen in the original series from 63 to 89, on the whole they seemed more like properly constrcuted stoires with properly constructed endings with no magic at all to me... even Timelash. You need to be good at explaining away problems with continuity or holes in the plot with the of of season stories from RTD:D

The end of the Big bang makes far more sense and is thought out better than any of the RTD stuff, and i've only ever watched it twice. The Doctor tells young Amy about the old man in the borrowed old blue police box setting her up for remembering him. he then goes through the crack and is removed from time, all memory of him gone. Then at the wedding, with the help of river, Amy slowly remembers the Doctor, think back the same happened with her and Rory in the episode before, and what he told her, the old wedding saying, 'Something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue'. Amy finally remembers him, therefore he can't have been deleated from time and must have exsisted, makes perfect sense to me :D
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Kajaboy » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:43 am

The Nimon wrote:So you're saying that the end of Last Of The Time Lords makes perfect sense? The Doctor is floating about, all god like, in a blue light because all of the people down of earth are chanting his name and his tuned himself into 12 satellites, that makes perfect sense? RTD then goes on to rip the end off from the TV movie by turning time back and it never happened. Journeys End, The Doctor uses the Tardis to tow earth back to it orignal place in space and doesn't cause giant earth quakes and tidle waves killing all on earth, and that makes perfect sense? Farting of the ways, Rose absorbs the Time vortex and waves her hands about a bit, all god like, to save the day and that makes perfect sense? The end of Doomsday is the only one that does make any kind of sense, and i still want to know why Rose's dad wasn't sucked into the void considering he appeared right in front of the crack and he was covered in the void stuff when he came to save her, The day she died... oh she didn't. when did these happen in the original series from 63 to 89, on the whole they seemed more like properly constrcuted stoires with properly constructed endings with no magic at all to me... even Timelash. You need to be good at explaining away problems with continuity or holes in the plot with the of of season stories from RTD:D

The end of the Big bang makes far more sense and is thought out better than any of the RTD stuff, and i've only ever watched it twice. The Doctor tells young Amy about the old man in the borrowed old blue police box setting her up for remembering him. he then goes through the crack and is removed from time, all memory of him gone. Then at the wedding, with the help of river, Amy slowly remembers the Doctor, think back the same happened with her and Rory in the episode before, and what he told her, the old wedding saying, 'Something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue'. Amy finally remembers him, therefore he can't have been deleated from time and must have exsisted, makes perfect sense to me :D


All of those things make perfect sense in the context of the story. The ideas have been set up earlier on.

Journeys End, The Doctor uses the Tardis to tow earth back to it orignal place in space and doesn't cause giant earth quakes and tidle waves killing all on earth, and that makes perfect sense?

Yes because obviously the TARDIS has a way of stabalising these elements.

Farting of the ways, Rose absorbs the Time vortex and waves her hands about a bit, all god like, to save the day and that makes perfect sense?

Yes. The Whole Bad Wolf thing had been set up from the word go. She absorbed the vortex and now we know what happens when you do that. You end up with too much power.

The end of Doomsday is the only one that does make any kind of sense, and i still want to know why Rose's dad wasn't sucked into the void considering he appeared right in front of the crack and he was covered in the void stuff when he came to save her, The day she died... oh she didn't.

She was listed among the dead on the our Earth so therefore to everyone else she did die.
As for Pete, this is where I have to put brain in gear, the teleporter must allow you a few seconds of stability that stops you being sucked in. 8-)

I'll get back to you on LOTTL

The end of the Big bang makes far more sense and is thought out better than any of the RTD stuff, and i've only ever watched it twice. The Doctor tells young Amy about the old man in the borrowed old blue police box setting her up for remembering him. he then goes through the crack and is removed from time, all memory of him gone. Then at the wedding, with the help of river, Amy slowly remembers the Doctor, think back the same happened with her and Rory in the episode before, and what he told her, the old wedding saying, 'Something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue'. Amy finally remembers him, therefore he can't have been deleated from time and must have exsisted, makes perfect sense to me

I was refering to the episode as a whole. Nothing makes sense at all. You can't go around travelling to the past to save yourself from the future which you can only have done if you had travelled from the future to the past in the first place........... :Blink:
Explain this bit to me in full please.
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