Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Flying Tiger Comics wrote:
How come indeed. It is a remarkably silly story given how amazingly cool the basic ideas are.


Yeah and why is General Cobb in his late 60s (and from Cornwall)?!? If he's less than a week old and the machine makes people in their early 20s?!
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:02 pm

feline1 wrote:THE DOCTOR'S DAUGHTER ...

This is a rather 'comic book' episode in tone. The title promises some kind of momentous revelation about the Doctor's weak-ankled offspring, but in that regard it's all a bit of a tease. It all whizzes along within its 45 minute slot but ultimately to me feels rather inconsequential.

Matha is along for the ride again too?! And frankly doesn't really add a great deal to the story, simply being split from the Doctor, managing to fall down a gentle slope in Sarah-Jane-Smith-Five-Doctors style, and get her friend drowned in a tar pit.

Jenny's "regeneration" at the end is a bit daft too ... how come she doesn't change appearance?


Inconsequential sums it up perfectly for me. Exactly how I felt at the time. Liked the good idea of the aliens though with the water tanks for 'breathing'. But one I feel is something of a filler. A lot less entertaining than the Sontaran one, for all it's faults.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby shuzbot » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:42 pm

paulhickling wrote:
feline1 wrote:THE DOCTOR'S DAUGHTER ...

This is a rather 'comic book' episode in tone. The title promises some kind of momentous revelation about the Doctor's weak-ankled offspring, but in that regard it's all a bit of a tease. It all whizzes along within its 45 minute slot but ultimately to me feels rather inconsequential.

Matha is along for the ride again too?! And frankly doesn't really add a great deal to the story, simply being split from the Doctor, managing to fall down a gentle slope in Sarah-Jane-Smith-Five-Doctors style, and get her friend drowned in a tar pit.

Jenny's "regeneration" at the end is a bit daft too ... how come she doesn't change appearance?


Inconsequential sums it up perfectly for me. Exactly how I felt at the time. Liked the good idea of the aliens though with the water tanks for 'breathing'. But one I feel is something of a filler. A lot less entertaining than the Sontaran one, for all it's faults.


I thought the aliens with the breathing apparatus was a mistake, personally. They effectively had no lines and when one of them dies in Martha's arms she looks him in the eyes, gives a heartfelt plea to hang in there and the only response she is met with is - 'Glugg!'
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:13 pm

shuzbot wrote:
paulhickling wrote:
feline1 wrote:THE DOCTOR'S DAUGHTER ...

This is a rather 'comic book' episode in tone. The title promises some kind of momentous revelation about the Doctor's weak-ankled offspring, but in that regard it's all a bit of a tease. It all whizzes along within its 45 minute slot but ultimately to me feels rather inconsequential.

Matha is along for the ride again too?! And frankly doesn't really add a great deal to the story, simply being split from the Doctor, managing to fall down a gentle slope in Sarah-Jane-Smith-Five-Doctors style, and get her friend drowned in a tar pit.

Jenny's "regeneration" at the end is a bit daft too ... how come she doesn't change appearance?


Inconsequential sums it up perfectly for me. Exactly how I felt at the time. Liked the good idea of the aliens though with the water tanks for 'breathing'. But one I feel is something of a filler. A lot less entertaining than the Sontaran one, for all it's faults.


I thought the aliens with the breathing apparatus was a mistake, personally. They effectively had no lines and when one of them dies in Martha's arms she looks him in the eyes, gives a heartfelt plea to hang in there and the only response she is met with is - 'Glugg!'


:floorroll:

Yep. It's true. GLUG! Now that's not really a line that would feature in the Oscars if it was in a film. Let's face it. Rubbish episode. Funnily enough, I didn't think at the time it was so bad I felt it stunk, but I did have that feeling of NEXT!

Shame, because I loved Nigel Terry as King Arthur in Excalibur. That film will remain my firm favourite of any version of the Arthur story, and he will remain my favourite King Arthur. So, unfortunately I feel he was wasted in that episode.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:38 pm

I was just listening to the DVD commentary, and the giggling girls say that the Hath actually had scripted lines, which they delivered at the read-through, and were read-in on set during the scenes, and they were surprised they were only present as glugs in the finished episode as broadcast!


Another thing about the Sontaron espisode (and probably dozens of others) - given that the whole "understanding aliens" thing is meant to be down to the TARDIS, cos come baddies conniving with aliens (like Rattigen) are able to understand the Sontarons? :P
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby Flying Tiger Comics » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:02 am

feline1 wrote:I was just listening to the DVD commentary, and the giggling girls say that the Hath actually had scripted lines, which they delivered at the read-through, and were read-in on set during the scenes, and they were surprised they were only present as glugs in the finished episode as broadcast!


Another thing about the Sontaron espisode (and probably dozens of others) - given that the whole "understanding aliens" thing is meant to be down to the TARDIS, cos come baddies conniving with aliens (like Rattigen) are able to understand the Sontarons? :P



GB approved answer: because SHUT UP how can someone who claims to love the show say that? etc.

Slightly better meta answer: although not identical to what is broadcast, the entirety of Doctor Who as "seen" by us is nothing more than a Matrix recreation from after the time of the last ever Doctor Who adventure. Where necessary the dream-like effects of the Matrix recreations simply elide or simplify what is shown.

Proof: Trial of a Time Lord.

Horrible confirmation: things like Doctor at the Proms, the thing with Davison and Tennant, etc.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:30 am

Yeah but in the Christmas Invasion, the Sycorax are unintelligable by all until the Doctor wakes up 8-)
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:37 pm

THE UNICORN AND THE WASP

...erm :lol:
Well, so, this one is clearly *intended* to be a comedy-farce.
The problem is, I think, is that rather than the jokes just trying to be funny-in-themselves, it seems to me that the writers are taking humour from the very fact that "omg we're doing a comedy Doctor Who! how OUTRAGEOUS! how MARRRRVELOUS! What a total hoot!" - i.e. meta-textual fanwank, to give it it's scientific name 8-)

And whilst obviously we've got a lovely cast (Felicity Kendall! Christopher Benjamin) and lovely period BBC costumes and sets, the 45 minutes is barely enough time for each them to get to do much.

It also starts to do that rather irritating thing where it takes a historical character and has these awful fawning "oh this was the most brilliant totes amazeballs person in the history of the human race EVER" scenes - I mean, it's only bloody Agatha Christie, fer goodnessakes! It did it with Shakespeare the year before too.

I can't deny the episode made me chuckle a few times, but I can't help feeling it's not quite as funny as it wants to be.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby shuzbot » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:51 pm

feline1 wrote:THE UNICORN AND THE WASP

...erm :lol:
Well, so, this one is clearly *intended* to be a comedy-farce.
The problem is, I think, is that rather than the jokes just trying to be funny-in-themselves, it seems to me that the writers are taking humour from the very fact that "omg we're doing a comedy Doctor Who! how OUTRAGEOUS! how MARRRRVELOUS! What a total hoot!" - i.e. meta-textual fanwank, to give it it's scientific name 8-)

And whilst obviously we've got a lovely cast (Felicity Kendall! Christopher Benjamin) and lovely period BBC costumes and sets, the 45 minutes is barely enough time for each them to get to do much.

It also starts to do that rather irritating thing where it takes a historical character and has these awful fawning "oh this was the most brilliant totes amazeballs person in the history of the human race EVER" scenes - I mean, it's only bloody Agatha Christie, fer goodnessakes! It did it with Shakespeare the year before too.

I can't deny the episode made me chuckle a few times, but I can't help feeling it's not quite as funny as it wants to be.


Image

That's an excerpt from DWB 122, an article by Gareth Roberts who wrote, 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'.

So yeah, I don't think he takes DW particularly seriously and this episode wouldn't feel out of place in the William era.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby LizR » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:08 am

feline1 wrote:I can't deny the episode made me chuckle a few times, but I can't help feeling it's not quite as funny as it wants to be.

"Yeah! Let's mention as many Agatha Christie titles as possible! Won't that be cool!"

Notice what happened to "Ten little niggers" (a.k.a. "And then there were none")

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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby Flying Tiger Comics » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:04 am

LizR wrote:
feline1 wrote:I can't deny the episode made me chuckle a few times, but I can't help feeling it's not quite as funny as it wants to be.

"Yeah! Let's mention as many Agatha Christie titles as possible! Won't that be cool!"

Notice what happened to "Ten little niggers" (a.k.a. "And then there were none")

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As an Agatha Christie afficionado, etc. it made me cringe in the end. The one defining quality of Agatha Christie other than her politics is her genius level eye for human behaviour and motivation. Her characters drawn from life make most of her stories more in the horror genre than the detective genre, and yet all of it is reduced to, shall we be kind, romp, in its most luvvie form. All a bit of a giggle.

Anyone unpacking Christie's work sees some very dark stuff, very angry, very remorseless stuff. She is also very dispassionate about human frailty and its effects. It would have been a perfect chance to make the story take a real turn for the awesome to have the monster of the week be basically irrelevant and to have Christie herself be the killer. Or something similar.

However given that they had the cooperation of her very aggressive estate, that would simply have ended up with the episode not being approved. On that score perhaps it could only ever have ended up as a panto romp.

Sad, because otherwise it might have been the updated Talons of its time.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby LizR » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:37 am

She was very cold - she wasn't the one born to sweet delight, indeed. Her favourite story was the one where the child kills grandpa, I forget the title but it was one of the very few where I almost immediately knew whodunnit. The only character I warmed to in about 70 novels (I've read all her detective fiction) was the woman who poisoned her lover, an artist, then regretted it for the rest of her life. On the whole I found the Harley Quinn stories somewhat more engaging, I wish she'd stuck with fantasy/SF a bit more but of course after Roger Ackroyd she was set up for life as the Queen of Detective Fiction.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:58 am

The last time Dr Who did Agatha Christie, we got ROBOTS OF DEATH ... Robots of Death isn't trying to be a comedy, but it makes me laugh way more than The Unicorn and the Wasp! It has some of the funniest scenes in the whole show's history, in fact ("Would you like a jelly baby?" /THWACK! SHADDUP!/ "A simple no thank you...") etc etc
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby LizR » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:40 pm

Christie reputedly had a great sense of humour. I have a sneaky suspicion she was making a fool of Brian Aldiss (an author I've never thought much of, apart from "Hothouse", though he has a fearsome reputation) when she told him that she wrote her whodunnits by writing the book with no idea who the murderer was, then going back and picking the least likely suspect, and rewriting, adding a few clues into the text.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:02 am

SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY - well, now we reach what had traditionally become the NuWho "really good strikingly original and actually dead creepy 2 parter slot", combined in a double whammy with it being 'written by Stephen Moffat - oooh his ones have been really good!"

So, dutifully watching this from An Unearthly Child in order and avoiding all spoilers of the next 6 years of Moffat :) I think basically this episode lives up to these expectations admirably.
The scary skeleton in a spacesuit thing is indeed great, the little girl with a library in her dreams is also very creepy and intriguing, what happens to Miss Evangelista is a beautiful bit of writing (wonderfully well played by Catherine Tate), and River Song has not yet started getting on my tits.

After a very strong Xmas special and opening 3 episodes, then some much weaker/sillier ones with bloody Martha back, Silence in the Library seems to see Season 30 back on form in the vein of Are You My Mummy/Satan Pit/Human Nature/Blink
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:02 pm

FOREST OF THE DEAD -
Again, I think this one I think this one is basically great.
It explains pretty satisfyingly What Has Been Going On: why the monsters are there, who the little girl is, etc etc
The only bit that made me groan a little is that OBVIOUSLY, like in all other sci-fi stories ever, you design your planet-sized computer with a 20 minute self-destruct button :lol:
Catherine Tate does her whole virtual reality scenes very well.
Was it really a nice thing to do to trap River Song forever in a virtual reality programme, though, rather than just let her die?
I see her full story will be paid off after 6 years though, singing towers and all that!
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:39 pm

MIDNIGHT -
oh, this one's absolutely great! Phew! (I was beginning to get worried about Season 30 for a while there ;) )

You could do this one as a stage play - just a bunch of great actors really playing the drama well - and splendidly edited for telly, it's so tight! So simple though, almost one set the whole way through.
The story is all the more interesting because basically the Doctor doesn't save the day at all, and his 'people management' skills are way off the mark and the moronic brexiterkippers almost end up murdering him.
RTD really can write good stories when he puts his mind to it 8-)
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:01 pm

TURN LEFT -
I found this one fairly powerful too! It's a cool story premise. And all credit to Catherine Tate, she is quite capable of holding down an entire episode without the Doctor... great support from Bernard Cribbens and her mum too (the sour face on her mum at times is quite something! :lol: )
I like the new UNIT commander too.

But - Billie Piper, what on earth is the matter with your top lip?! :shock: Never mind "there's something on your back" - I kept shouting at the telly "THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR LIP!!" :floorroll:

If there's one slight not-up-to-scratch element with this episode, it's the plastic beetle! I mean honestly, was that the best prop they could manage?!? Perhaps it was an homage to crap monsters from the 'classic who'.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:46 pm

THE STOLEN EARTH -
oh dear. I did *not* enjoy seeing this one again (don't think I've watched it since transmission?)
It says it was written by Russel T Davies, but it comes across more like something from a hyperactive 10 year old. Just scene after scene of blithering cameos from this cheesy 'franchise' of Torchwood and Sarah Jane and blah blah ... even Richard bloody Dawkins has a scene! And they do the Harriet Jones joke one time too many times...

It's barely a story, it's more list a daft fan-boy squee-list of namechecking all these continuity references.
The basic "they've transported 27 planets" thing is ludicrous.
And there's the ominous first appearance of that "dramatic device" that Moffat would start doing every 5 minutes in following years - one minute, Jack is insisting Martha has died because she didn't have the write coordinates for her teleport... and we're supposed to care... then 3 minutes later she's alive again anyway. A wry "oh, I was wrong" line from Jack might help, but there's nothing - it's the start of endless crying wolfing that begins to destroy the show, if you ask me.

Davros is back... again... :lol: but we're so busy squeezing in scenes of Martha Jones' mum etc that he barely has any semblence of a plot to explain what he's up to.

The Doctor getting exterminated was about the only bit I thought was actually pretty cool - given that this is the penultimate episode, it seems quite plausible we could have new actor playing the Doctor next week. :P
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:35 pm

JOURNEY'S END -
hmmmm.... this one had a little bit more *story* than the previous episode, but was still a completely overblown kerpuffle of megadrama :x And it features an alarming conflagration of bizarre wildly ad-hoc technobabbularisation and cosmic billiards, which RTD clearly doesn't give a hoot about, because it's all marrrrvellous.
The cast all act their little socks off, nevertheless, but the overall atmosphere is one of a frenetic cartoon.
I guess "in fairness" it is actively deliberately *trying* to be like this - a grand finale, a television *event*, etc etc - and if it wants to be that, I suppose it's doing it well.
Me, I'd quite happily settle for just a decent well written well acted story with spooky music :P
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