Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:04 pm

Totally agree about Turn Left. The finale however is a bit like a cross between a good Christmas Special and an anniversary special. You're definitely right about the non-story because it's the last thing on RTD's mind. And yes, there hasn't been a starfield on sftv like the one with all the planets looking like snooker balls since Blake's 7 Season 1.

But here's what I thought, and still think: RTD knew he wouldn't be around for the 50th, but which he knew was just around the corner. So he made his own anniversary special. Look at all the daft stuff like recreating scenes from the first Dalek story/movies shoving Daleks around etc.

Best of all though, apart from celebrating his own period on the show with everyone back, having Sarah Jane there (because of the spin-off) we were treated to that electrically charged moment when Davros recognised Sarah Jane's voice. That sent a tingle down my spine even better that Tom's surprise appearance in Day of the Doctor. And Davros was the best one since the original and still greatest.

Apart from that it was basically a big Who party, and best enjoyed as such.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Aye the sky is rather like that hand-drawn cardboard one in the Blakes 7 title sequence :D Although I was more like "LOOOK AT THE SKY! JUST LOOK! It's been replaced by a GATEFOLD TANGERINE DREAM ALBUM INNER SLEEVE"

But if that xmas-special-end-of-term-party-showbizz-revue wasn't enough (complete with tease about Tennant leaving), next we get...

..THE NEXT DOCTOR (that still counts as Season 30, right?)
Which oh god, sorry but what a load of old rubbish! :) I keep expecting all the kids to burst out into a chorus of "Food, glorious food!" any minute.
The tease with David Morrissey being the Doctor is fair enough for the first 20 minutes of so, but after that it's just an excuse in getting the CGI people to do giant killer clockwork cyber robots, killed by Monty Python's The Golden Age of Ballooning.

Doubtless Bob and Planet Mondas's other fascists will be delighted that the villain is Miss Hallyon, and EVIL FEMINIST and SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR who wants to KILL TEH MENS. :roll:

Also, the 'shade' monsters look ridiculous (there's no excuse for having something looking as silly as Androids of Tara in 2008, or whenever it was).

Honestly though, I think that particular Xmas "Special" is best forgotten. For all the David Morrissey character's dilemma and anguish, I find it hugely uninvolving and thoroughly silly. Not RTD's finest hour!
And a great shame that at the time, after a pretty horrible mess of a season finale, the audience had had to wait until Christmas for *that*!
And would then have to wait until easter for some nonsense about a nukeular bus... :lol:
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:28 pm

By the way, am I the only one who finds the whole "take Rose back to a parallel world and fob her off with a knock-off copy of the Doctor" thing to be completely ahine?!

The Doctor's decision to boot her off there with her mum was a bit ridiculous in the first place,
but to then take her back a SECOND time ... I mean take a hint, Rose! :lol: lol couldn't he have at least asked her what she wanted to do first?
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby Flying Tiger Comics » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:55 am

feline1 wrote:By the way, am I the only one who finds the whole "take Rose back to a parallel world and fob her off with a knock-off copy of the Doctor" thing to be completely ahine?!

The Doctor's decision to boot her off there with her mum was a bit ridiculous in the first place,
but to then take her back a SECOND time ... I mean take a hint, Rose! :lol: lol couldn't he have at least asked her what she wanted to do first?



Parallel universe rose etc. is RTD going back to his rec.arts.drwho or whatever and fan fiction roots and deliberately leaving hanging hooks and stubs (sounds very unsafe) like the Doctor's Daughter flying off.

If someone in some medium wants to "go there"... they can.

I agree with his philosophy there. Why burn boats you don't need to burn?

Also undoubtedly fanservice for the cult of squee, which to this day still obsesses over freakin Rose... oO

But it was a good sendoff in that what's the alternative? A bloodthirsty gunning down of extranumary characters? Or Rose simply walking back inside her flat?

I let him have that one. In some respects I still think Rose was RTD's alter ego in the show, so having "her" go off with "her" Doctor into their own private heaven... Let him have his fantasy. He earned it. :)

Cyberking and the weaponised fallen woman was the best (only good?) thing in Next Doctor, although David Morrissey elevated his role with his performance. I can see why they cast him in the Star Wars prequels. He would have been good in the Walking Dead too, in the role they gave to Liam Neeson... (callback to previous 'hilarious' joke). :)
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby The Ginger Cat » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:56 am

It was the bit with the Tardis towing the Earth that killed "Journey's End" for me. Hyperactive load of old tosh.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:57 pm

Aye and Murray's Gold music for that bit, ffs! :roll:
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:33 pm

The Next Doctor is my favourite Christmas Special. Something for everyone. Perfectly accessible to a general audience in love with Tennant and his brand of fun, and Cybermen!, for the fans. And a Cyber-massacre to boot, very nicely directed. And a proper giant robot that despite the non-excuse for it in all sorts of ways, is MEGA!

Love the fact that it's basically a Two Doctors (another element of that RTD making up for missing out on the anniversary), with the guest being the best Doctor we never had. And I love the elements of his delusion: the screwdriver and his 'Tardis'. Even a companion called 'Rose-ita'.

The Cybershades are fine. Ok, the body is a cop-out, but the copper cyber-heads look great, and unlike the Cybermats (and the Cyber-King) are explained. Not much of an excuse but at least RTD could be bothered to provide one. And there's genuine pathos in Jackson Lake's coming out of his condition.

The Tardis pulling the Earth in JE is so bonkers, but like that cheesy anthem from Murray, is tempered by such a nice feel-good factor as to render such a consideration superfluous. I couldn't suppress a grin when all the 'Who gang' stood around the console, with Martha smiling at the Doctor/audience.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:37 pm

Well, if you enjoy it, fair enough! But it's not exactly INFERNO, is it? :lol:
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby LizR » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:58 am

paulhickling wrote:The Next Doctor is my favourite Christmas Special. Something for everyone. Perfectly accessible to a general audience in love with Tennant and his brand of fun, and Cybermen!, for the fans. And a Cyber-massacre to boot, very nicely directed. And a proper giant robot that despite the non-excuse for it in all sorts of ways, is MEGA!

Love the fact that it's basically a Two Doctors (another element of that RTD making up for missing out on the anniversary), with the guest being the best Doctor we never had. And I love the elements of his delusion: the screwdriver and his 'Tardis'. Even a companion called 'Rose-ita'.

The Cybershades are fine. Ok, the body is a cop-out, but the copper cyber-heads look great, and unlike the Cybermats (and the Cyber-King) are explained. Not much of an excuse but at least RTD could be bothered to provide one. And there's genuine pathos in Jackson Lake's coming out of his condition.

The Tardis pulling the Earth in JE is so bonkers, but like that cheesy anthem from Murray, is tempered by such a nice feel-good factor as to render such a consideration superfluous. I couldn't suppress a grin when all the 'Who gang' stood around the console, with Martha smiling at the Doctor/audience.

And yet another wicked witch. :twisted:
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:59 pm

feline1 wrote:Well, if you enjoy it, fair enough! But it's not exactly INFERNO, is it? :lol:


No. Neither is it The Daleks, The Massacre, Power/Evil of the Daleks, Web of Fear, The Daemons, Ark in Space, Genesis of the Daleks, Deadly Assassin, Talons of Weng Chiang or Caves of Androzani. But equally it's no Underwater Menace, Horns of Nimon, Time Flight, Timelash, Terror of the Vervoids, or Paradise Towers either. :P

And I love it. That and The Christmas Invasion are my two top festive specials. Aimed at the general audience but plenty of Who-ness for us.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:02 pm

LizR wrote:
paulhickling wrote:The Next Doctor is my favourite Christmas Special. Something for everyone. Perfectly accessible to a general audience in love with Tennant and his brand of fun, and Cybermen!, for the fans. And a Cyber-massacre to boot, very nicely directed. And a proper giant robot that despite the non-excuse for it in all sorts of ways, is MEGA!

Love the fact that it's basically a Two Doctors (another element of that RTD making up for missing out on the anniversary), with the guest being the best Doctor we never had. And I love the elements of his delusion: the screwdriver and his 'Tardis'. Even a companion called 'Rose-ita'.

The Cybershades are fine. Ok, the body is a cop-out, but the copper cyber-heads look great, and unlike the Cybermats (and the Cyber-King) are explained. Not much of an excuse but at least RTD could be bothered to provide one. And there's genuine pathos in Jackson Lake's coming out of his condition.

The Tardis pulling the Earth in JE is so bonkers, but like that cheesy anthem from Murray, is tempered by such a nice feel-good factor as to render such a consideration superfluous. I couldn't suppress a grin when all the 'Who gang' stood around the console, with Martha smiling at the Doctor/audience.

And yet another wicked witch. :twisted:


Don't mind wicked witches that much, or at least when they're not pretending to be The Master.

And she looks great in red against the white snow during the Cyber-massacre.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby LizR » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:43 am

paulhickling wrote:Don't mind wicked witches that much, or at least when they're not pretending to be The Master.

They're a bit overused in NewWho, especially by RTD. I have a theory about him having an early traumatic visit to see "Snow White" (which would also perhaps explain his "author avatar" being a version of SW).

paulhickling wrote:And she looks great in red against the white snow during the Cyber-massacre.

Let's face it, what other colour can you wear to a massacre? :D
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:01 pm

LizR wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Don't mind wicked witches that much, or at least when they're not pretending to be The Master.

They're a bit overused in NewWho, especially by RTD. I have a theory about him having an early traumatic visit to see "Snow White" (which would also perhaps explain his "author avatar" being a version of SW).

paulhickling wrote:And she looks great in red against the white snow during the Cyber-massacre.

Let's face it, what other colour can you wear to a massacre? :D


Quite.

I suppose I'm easily led with good visuals. My earliest movie hero as a kid wasn't an actor or writer, but a sfx man, Ray Harryhausen. Whilst I like to think I've matured since then someone comes along with a Cyber-King and I'm too gobsmacked to worry about the plot!

I do want good plotting and writing generally, but I often feel if it balances well enough for me as an entertainment overall then I can be happy. In the old days it was always the story over visuals because the latter often couldn't cut it with the budgets and time. Now a shaky (though not a total annoyance like a certain eggy moon) episode can occasionally be saved for me by other things being impressive.

Though I have to say that both The Next Doctor and The Christmas Invasion strike me as fine in the plot department.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby Heccypoo » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:32 pm

I suppose I'm easily led with good visuals. My earliest movie hero as a kid wasn't an actor or writer, but a sfx man, Ray Harryhausen. Whilst I like to think I've matured since then someone comes along with a Cyber-King and I'm too gobsmacked to worry about the plot


There's a difference between what Ray Harryhausen (and what Willis O'Brian's King Kong team) did and NuWho's SFX.

Even if some were in 'B' movies, and though technically they have dated, Harryhausen's effects have craftsmanship and a charm that will still enchant.

NuWho is soulless, by the numbers CGI. CGI, done well, is a great tool in the SFX box, but the sh*te produced for NuWho is embarrassingly bad compared to American and other TV shows.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby bobmcpherson » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:20 am

Heccypoo wrote:
I suppose I'm easily led with good visuals. My earliest movie hero as a kid wasn't an actor or writer, but a sfx man, Ray Harryhausen. Whilst I like to think I've matured since then someone comes along with a Cyber-King and I'm too gobsmacked to worry about the plot


There's a difference between what Ray Harryhausen (and what Willis O'Brian's King Kong team) did and NuWho's SFX.

Even if some were in 'B' movies, and though technically they have dated, Harryhausen's effects have craftsmanship and a charm that will still enchant.

NuWho is soulless, by the numbers CGI. CGI, done well, is a great tool in the SFX box, but the sh*te produced for NuWho is embarrassingly bad compared to American and other TV shows.



Just watched SAN ANDREAS...a wall to wall cgi earthquake/flood and dull as hell. Does not compare to EARTHQUAKE or SAN FRANCISCO. CGI is boring. Thus when NUWHO is weak it is doubly weak. You need a good story to make the dull CGI seem interesting. THE NEXT DOCTOR is okay only because of the Cybermen. Without them, it would be impossible.............
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby Heccypoo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:09 am

bobmcpherson wrote:
Heccypoo wrote:
I suppose I'm easily led with good visuals. My earliest movie hero as a kid wasn't an actor or writer, but a sfx man, Ray Harryhausen. Whilst I like to think I've matured since then someone comes along with a Cyber-King and I'm too gobsmacked to worry about the plot


There's a difference between what Ray Harryhausen (and what Willis O'Brian's King Kong team) did and NuWho's SFX.

Even if some were in 'B' movies, and though technically they have dated, Harryhausen's effects have craftsmanship and a charm that will still enchant.

NuWho is soulless, by the numbers CGI. CGI, done well, is a great tool in the SFX box, but the sh*te produced for NuWho is embarrassingly bad compared to American and other TV shows.



Just watched SAN ANDREAS...a wall to wall cgi earthquake/flood and dull as hell. Does not compare to EARTHQUAKE or SAN FRANCISCO. CGI is boring. Thus when NUWHO is weak it is doubly weak. You need a good story to make the dull CGI seem interesting. THE NEXT DOCTOR is okay only because of the Cybermen. Without them, it would be impossible.............


The first incarnation of Cybermen in NuWho are terrible Robocop rip offs...

That's before they became terrible IRON MAN rip offs...
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:54 am

Ray Harryhausen's stuff looks FANTASTIC, I still, to this day, prefer stop motion to CGI. This was very evident to me in the new Ghostbusters film, for instance. Neither look "real", but stop motion just looks "better".


Anyways - PLANET OF THE DEAD ....

Well, for the first time ever, Doctor Who is in High Definition, so I guess there's some pleasure to be gained just basking in the epic visuals.
But I'm afraid, story-wise, this whole story is just too "Disney" for me.
Undoubtedly, Roberts & RTD *intended* it to be a big rollicking Disney easter bank holiday family special, but I'm sorry, by the time it gets to the flying bus, I'm just cringing.

Lady de Souza is, on the one had, deliciously arch and sassy, but I struggle to really find her a believable realistic character - she's much too larger than life.

The Doctor spends a great deal of time trying to calm down the hysterical bus passengers... and then just walks off across the desert for hours without even telling them where he's going!

The professor Malcolm guy, I'm sorry, I just find to be an utterly hammed-up nutty mad-professor, embarrassing. Again, I suppose it is *intended* to be a broad comic caricature to make 7 year olds giggle, but it just makes me cringe.

I quite like the UNIT commander, back again from Turn Left ... although despite her telling the CID guy to piss off at the start, he appears to have stayed hanging around!

I guess I found this story better and more credible than THE NEXT DOCTOR, but not by much... compared to the top notch episodes in the main body of Season 30, it's not really to my taste at all.
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby The Ginger Cat » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:50 am

Can't remember much about this one except the two half-man half-fly aliens that looked like they were knock offs from "The Fly" (the original 50's version).
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby 'teleportNOW!' » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:22 pm

The Ginger Cat wrote:Can't remember much about this one except the two half-man half-fly aliens that looked like they were knock offs from "The Fly" (the original 50's version).


yeah and then they just get eaten by the metal manta-ray monster and that's that!

The "vast swarm of millions of monsters about to crash through the wormhole" thing was ridiculous too - despite them being RIGHT THERE BESIDE THE BUS in the desert, and the bus dicking about in the air for like a full MINUTE on the other side before the wormhole finally gets closed, only about THREE of them come through rather than 30,000. :roll:
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Re: Watching DrWho from the beginning: Season 30

Postby paulhickling » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Planet of the Dead is a bit of a clunker. I did enjoy it more than some, especially the swarm which reminded me of flying Cybermats ( they were made of metal or something weren't they?), and the lass from Eastenders who I thought was an older school companion with no soapy family in tow, but there are too many bonkers things and tweeness around. All that at the end with the flying bus was so Disney-fied. And Lee Evans repeating "I bloody love you" was way too ott.

The human flies were three things: yet another example of RTD's fascination with aliens based on Earth animals, his nod (I think) to the aforementioned sf film The Fly (which in itself I'm fine with), and bloody annoying because they're BORING.

But back to my penchant for good visuals: in mentioning Harryhausen I seem to have unintentionally stressed sfx. While for me they're part of a satisfying mix, I meant the whole area of design. Also if the direction is good, the performances, the music (love Murray's work for RTD) and yes, the fx, I can overlook (depending of course on how bad we're talking) some faux pas in the script and plot department. And Next Doctor and Christmas Invasion are two shining examples festive specials that tick most of my quality control boxes enough to be satisfying wholes.

And it's only really the area of sfx that ever got in the way of Classic Who. Design was some of the best on telly right from the start as we know from Ray Cusick's. Often my beef on the fx side is to do with bad decisions. Barry Letts (among others) often said they sent scripts back when they called for a cast of thousands, but then he thought Invasion of the Dinosaurs was a good idea enough to get it made! Look, I'm a Pertwee fan, but I know the Beeb at that time couldn't seriously do dinosaurs invading London. As for a planet teeming with intelligent insects made in the 60s don't get me started... :roll:
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