Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby tony ingram » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:12 pm

The Nimon wrote:If its a case of fans hating what the public love then the public must really love Moffat and what he's done with the show then :D
They do seem to, yes. The AI remains high, the ratings remain high, and the show is doing better than it ever has. Then again, some fans love what Moffat has done, too. Just not on here, it seems.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby tony ingram » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:14 pm

Allons-y wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Well, I have to differ with the very title of this thread, which is complete bollocks as far as I'm concerned. For me it's Tenth Doctor = One of the Best Doctors, as he is clearly in the top ranking. As was Christmas Invasion. Still stands as one of the two best festive specials, along with The Next Doctor.

The idea of the new Doctor being in bed for half the time is obviously a reference to Spearhead from Space, also used to some extent by The TV Movie. Both RTD and Segal were fans of the Pertwee era of course. And there's the grumps after the PM having the Sychorax destroyed echoing the Brig blowing up the Silurians. Lovely references for me.

Maybe Tennant is more the people's Doctor than purely the fan's. In our house there was a genuine family mix, and the line "this is my fighting hand" brought the house down, along with most of Tennant's performance.

I agree. Actually I think many fans dislike Tennant simply because the general public loved him, but that's enough of that, I'm in danger of sounding like Adam Who (albeit arguing the opposite position)
I didn't. I don't care whether the public liked him or not. I hated him because to me, he was not playing the Doctor, just a generic action hero/romantic lead.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:19 pm

It's going to be an odd Xmas day in our house, Mrs Wings has grown to love Matt Smith as the Doctor, in her words she has eaten massive humble pie after originally not warming to him, and almost doesn't want to watch the episode on Xmas day as she doesn't want to be upset, she gets goosebumps when he does his big grandstanding speeches and thinks that the sequence when he is put in the Pandorica is one of the best in all Who. She also thinks he does angry better than Tennant (grounds for divorce :lol: :lol: :lol: )

I have the champagne on ice! didnt like Smith from his casting and I feel my gut instinct was right (for me anyway), I just never warmed to his portrayal and believe he has damaged the brand.

However, we BOTH cant wait for Capaldi to arrive. Being a fan and being married to a fan is fab, we never run out of things to talk about :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby tony ingram » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:51 pm

chap with wings wrote:I have the champagne on ice! didnt like Smith from his casting and I feel my gut instinct was right (for me anyway), I just never warmed to his portrayal and believe he has damaged the brand.

How can he have damaged the brand when it's now a global phenomenon, far more so than it was in the previous five years?
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Heccypoo » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:02 pm

I blame the writers and production teams for making the Doctor a cartoon character...

Matt Smith started wonderfully, but whoever was in charge cranked him up to 10 and left him there.

David Tennent can be a good actor, again let down by production staff who no doubt watch too much soap opera and x factor, read to many DC comics and can't write for the 45 minute format ( I include Moffat in those that have a problem with the 45 min slot).

Though to be fair, when Moffat was under RTD he was better. Maybe the best thing RTD could do was reign in the Moff..
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Allons-y » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:22 pm

Heccypoo wrote:I blame the writers and production teams for making the Doctor a cartoon character...

Matt Smith started wonderfully, but whoever was in charge cranked him up to 10 and left him there.

David Tennent can be a good actor, again let down by production staff who no doubt watch too much soap opera and x factor, read to many DC comics and can't write for the 45 minute format ( I include Moffat in those that have a problem with the 45 min slot).

Though to be fair, when Moffat was under RTD he was better. Maybe the best thing RTD could do was reign in the Moff..

IMO Matt didn't start off very well (alright maybe he was okay in The Eleventh Hour) and he only really started to get into the role properly (or perhaps I got used to him) by Series 7. Well you know my views on Tennant, so I won't beat a dead horse, but I think the 45 minute format isn't a good fit for Doctor Who. I think 45 minute episodes are great, but I think 45 minute stories just don't cut it. We should have 2 and 3 part stories, with the odd splattering of single episode stories (a bit like the 4 and 6 x 25 minute episodes with the odd splattering of 2 part stories seen in most of the classic series), that would be the ideal format for Doctor Who.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:07 pm

tony ingram wrote:
chap with wings wrote:I have the champagne on ice! didnt like Smith from his casting and I feel my gut instinct was right (for me anyway), I just never warmed to his portrayal and believe he has damaged the brand.

How can he have damaged the brand when it's now a global phenomenon, far more so than it was in the previous five years?


Mrs W thinks I am a loony as well Tony! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Krynoid Man » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:33 pm

chap with wings wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
chap with wings wrote:I have the champagne on ice! didnt like Smith from his casting and I feel my gut instinct was right (for me anyway), I just never warmed to his portrayal and believe he has damaged the brand.

How can he have damaged the brand when it's now a global phenomenon, far more so than it was in the previous five years?


Mrs W thinks I am a loony as well Tony! :lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't think you're loony, I know you're loony. You think Love and Monster is good. I bet you eat spiders and dress up as you mother too. You ought to be locked up.
Sorry about that, I don't mean to insult you, I just really hate Love and Monsters.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby tony ingram » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:40 pm

The Krynoid man wrote:
chap with wings wrote:
Mrs W thinks I am a loony as well Tony! :lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't think you're loony, I know you're loony. You think Love and Monster is good. I bet you eat spiders and dress up as you mother too. You ought to be locked up.
Sorry about that, I don't mean to insult you, I just really hate Love and Monsters.
A perfectly understandable reaction to anyone who openly admits to liking Love & Monsters, I feel. I mean, bestiality and necrophilia I can just about tolerate, but liking Love & Monsters...

Well, it's not natural, is it?
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:33 pm

tony ingram wrote:
The Krynoid man wrote:
chap with wings wrote:
Mrs W thinks I am a loony as well Tony! :lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't think you're loony, I know you're loony. You think Love and Monster is good. I bet you eat spiders and dress up as you mother too. You ought to be locked up.
Sorry about that, I don't mean to insult you, I just really hate Love and Monsters.
A perfectly understandable reaction to anyone who openly admits to liking Love & Monsters, I feel. I mean, bestiality and necrophilia I can just about tolerate, but liking Love & Monsters...

Well, it's not natural, is it?


to make my lunacy even worse, Love and Monsters is my number 3 all time favourite story....
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby iank » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:22 pm

I actually think L&M is one of the better efforts from the Tennant era (and certainly one of the two or three best episodes from the rather turgid series 2).
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:31 pm

iank wrote:I actually think L&M is one of the better efforts from the Tennant era (and certainly one of the two or three best episodes from the rather turgid series 2).


It's not just me then!
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby The Krynoid Man » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:51 pm

Madness!
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Allons-y » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:48 am

The Krynoid man wrote:Madness!

Here here
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby chap with wings » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:23 am

My Review of Love and Monsters from waaaay back in 2006 on the old Ian Levine Forum:


"Love & Monsters, TV at its very best

In the last 30 years, there have only been a handful of TV events that have truly moved me and shaped my life. The earliest of these was Tom Baker’s regeneration in Logopolis, I can catagorically state that that was the day my childhood ended and the world for me, became a less happy place. Next was David Lynch’s masterpiece “Twin Peaks”, a beautiful work of art.

Now we come on to Russell T Davies and “The Second Coming”, thinking of it makes the hairs on the back of my arms stand on end, it is so very powerful and moving.

Most recently is the episode of Doctor Who from David Tennant’s first season called “Love and Monsters”, a television classic if ever there was.

Below is a review I wrote for this episode for Ian Levine’s Who forum:

Love and Monsters for me is not only the best Doctor Who episode since it came back, but the best thing I have seen on TV in 25 years.
I have watched the episode about 15 times and it really does stand up to repeated viewing, you see something new in it every time, it is funny, touching, absurd, serious, and has a special “something” that I cant quite describe.

My theory about what really happened in Love and Monsters is as follows:

The most important line is right at the end when Elton says “We forget because we must.”

As a boy, Elton Pope finds the dead body of his mother and sees the Doctor for the first time, his world is destroyed and he blocks the memory of the death of his mother out of his mind.

The grown up Elton makes a video diary of his life, or rather, he tells a story of how he would like his life to be, the only thing that happened as seen is when Elton is talking DIRECTLY to camera, and we see the white borders to show that the camera is recording, everything else is from Elton’s point of view, and not necessarily exactly how it happened.

Elton joins Linda and meets the LINDA gang, he has feelings for Ursula Blake, but is too shy to say anything, Victor Kennedy joins, gets a lead as to where the Doctor could be, Elton goes to investigate, but is utterly terrified, we then see Eltons version of events, a comedy runabout, his way of coping with the terror.

I also believe that the events with Jackie never took place as Elton portrays them, she probably caught him and sent him away with a flea in his ear for stalking her, again, Elton’s fragile mind makes a story up.

Victor Kennedy is so intense that one by one the members of LINDA leave, Elton cant stand this so he literally Demonises him and creates the fictitious Absorbaloff to justify their disappearance, its appearance is childish and not very convincing, a generic “Scary Alien”, there is now only Ursula left, and as she leaves Elton makes a fumbled attempt to ask her out, she turns him down and HE not the Absorbaloff chases Ursula.

The Doctor arrives as Ursula storms off, Rose gives him a piece of her mind, the Doctor reminds Elton of the first time they met and it all comes back to him, the horror of a child losing his mother which has ruined his life.

Now, my theory of the paving slab, this is the spot where Elton last saw Ursula, so as a memento he digs it up and takes it home.

Remember my theory that the only real thing we see is when we see the camera recording, we never see Ursula in the slab captured on camera.

So in the end, Elton is still dreaming and making sense of his lot in a world that does not care.

So there you have it, my theory on Love and Monsters, and it is only my theory, I probably watch too much David Lynch and read too much into things, but I love it.

And that is all I have to say about that."
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Allons-y » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:54 am

chap with wings wrote:My Review of Love and Monsters from waaaay back in 2006 on the old Ian Levine Forum:


"Love & Monsters, TV at its very best

In the last 30 years, there have only been a handful of TV events that have truly moved me and shaped my life. The earliest of these was Tom Baker’s regeneration in Logopolis, I can catagorically state that that was the day my childhood ended and the world for me, became a less happy place. Next was David Lynch’s masterpiece “Twin Peaks”, a beautiful work of art.

Now we come on to Russell T Davies and “The Second Coming”, thinking of it makes the hairs on the back of my arms stand on end, it is so very powerful and moving.

Most recently is the episode of Doctor Who from David Tennant’s first season called “Love and Monsters”, a television classic if ever there was.

Below is a review I wrote for this episode for Ian Levine’s Who forum:

Love and Monsters for me is not only the best Doctor Who episode since it came back, but the best thing I have seen on TV in 25 years.
I have watched the episode about 15 times and it really does stand up to repeated viewing, you see something new in it every time, it is funny, touching, absurd, serious, and has a special “something” that I cant quite describe.

My theory about what really happened in Love and Monsters is as follows:

The most important line is right at the end when Elton says “We forget because we must.”

As a boy, Elton Pope finds the dead body of his mother and sees the Doctor for the first time, his world is destroyed and he blocks the memory of the death of his mother out of his mind.

The grown up Elton makes a video diary of his life, or rather, he tells a story of how he would like his life to be, the only thing that happened as seen is when Elton is talking DIRECTLY to camera, and we see the white borders to show that the camera is recording, everything else is from Elton’s point of view, and not necessarily exactly how it happened.

Elton joins Linda and meets the LINDA gang, he has feelings for Ursula Blake, but is too shy to say anything, Victor Kennedy joins, gets a lead as to where the Doctor could be, Elton goes to investigate, but is utterly terrified, we then see Eltons version of events, a comedy runabout, his way of coping with the terror.

I also believe that the events with Jackie never took place as Elton portrays them, she probably caught him and sent him away with a flea in his ear for stalking her, again, Elton’s fragile mind makes a story up.

Victor Kennedy is so intense that one by one the members of LINDA leave, Elton cant stand this so he literally Demonises him and creates the fictitious Absorbaloff to justify their disappearance, its appearance is childish and not very convincing, a generic “Scary Alien”, there is now only Ursula left, and as she leaves Elton makes a fumbled attempt to ask her out, she turns him down and HE not the Absorbaloff chases Ursula.

The Doctor arrives as Ursula storms off, Rose gives him a piece of her mind, the Doctor reminds Elton of the first time they met and it all comes back to him, the horror of a child losing his mother which has ruined his life.

Now, my theory of the paving slab, this is the spot where Elton last saw Ursula, so as a memento he digs it up and takes it home.

Remember my theory that the only real thing we see is when we see the camera recording, we never see Ursula in the slab captured on camera.

So in the end, Elton is still dreaming and making sense of his lot in a world that does not care.

So there you have it, my theory on Love and Monsters, and it is only my theory, I probably watch too much David Lynch and read too much into things, but I love it.

And that is all I have to say about that."

Interesting theory Chap. Love and Monsters - a story so bad that the only way to like it is to pretend it didn't happen as shown on screen ;) . No I jest, it really is a neat theory
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby Heccypoo » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:40 pm

chap with wings wrote:My Review of Love and Monsters from waaaay back in 2006 on the old Ian Levine Forum:


"Love & Monsters, TV at its very best

In the last 30 years, there have only been a handful of TV events that have truly moved me and shaped my life. The earliest of these was Tom Baker’s regeneration in Logopolis, I can catagorically state that that was the day my childhood ended and the world for me, became a less happy place. Next was David Lynch’s masterpiece “Twin Peaks”, a beautiful work of art.

Now we come on to Russell T Davies and “The Second Coming”, thinking of it makes the hairs on the back of my arms stand on end, it is so very powerful and moving.

Most recently is the episode of Doctor Who from David Tennant’s first season called “Love and Monsters”, a television classic if ever there was.

Below is a review I wrote for this episode for Ian Levine’s Who forum:

Love and Monsters for me is not only the best Doctor Who episode since it came back, but the best thing I have seen on TV in 25 years.
I have watched the episode about 15 times and it really does stand up to repeated viewing, you see something new in it every time, it is funny, touching, absurd, serious, and has a special “something” that I cant quite describe.

My theory about what really happened in Love and Monsters is as follows:

The most important line is right at the end when Elton says “We forget because we must.”

As a boy, Elton Pope finds the dead body of his mother and sees the Doctor for the first time, his world is destroyed and he blocks the memory of the death of his mother out of his mind.

The grown up Elton makes a video diary of his life, or rather, he tells a story of how he would like his life to be, the only thing that happened as seen is when Elton is talking DIRECTLY to camera, and we see the white borders to show that the camera is recording, everything else is from Elton’s point of view, and not necessarily exactly how it happened.

Elton joins Linda and meets the LINDA gang, he has feelings for Ursula Blake, but is too shy to say anything, Victor Kennedy joins, gets a lead as to where the Doctor could be, Elton goes to investigate, but is utterly terrified, we then see Eltons version of events, a comedy runabout, his way of coping with the terror.

I also believe that the events with Jackie never took place as Elton portrays them, she probably caught him and sent him away with a flea in his ear for stalking her, again, Elton’s fragile mind makes a story up.

Victor Kennedy is so intense that one by one the members of LINDA leave, Elton cant stand this so he literally Demonises him and creates the fictitious Absorbaloff to justify their disappearance, its appearance is childish and not very convincing, a generic “Scary Alien”, there is now only Ursula left, and as she leaves Elton makes a fumbled attempt to ask her out, she turns him down and HE not the Absorbaloff chases Ursula.

The Doctor arrives as Ursula storms off, Rose gives him a piece of her mind, the Doctor reminds Elton of the first time they met and it all comes back to him, the horror of a child losing his mother which has ruined his life.

Now, my theory of the paving slab, this is the spot where Elton last saw Ursula, so as a memento he digs it up and takes it home.

Remember my theory that the only real thing we see is when we see the camera recording, we never see Ursula in the slab captured on camera.

So in the end, Elton is still dreaming and making sense of his lot in a world that does not care.

So there you have it, my theory on Love and Monsters, and it is only my theory, I probably watch too much David Lynch and read too much into things, but I love it.

And that is all I have to say about that."



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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby paulhickling » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Love and Monsters is quite simply a beautifully written tv play. The fact that it happens to be a Doctor Who episode too is pretty amazing. I like so many things about it that the paving slab adult joke is something that I uneasily prefer to ignore. Wrong slot for that kind of thing as far as I'm concerned.

But everything else is wonderful. The video diary, the romance with Rose's mum, the jamming sessions, ELO!, the affectionate dig at Who fans. SO, SO much better than the poorly aimed dig at fans in Greatest Show. The one in Greatest Show is a fool, and cardboard cut-out nerd. The ones in L&M are nice human beings who we like. And genuinely feel sorry for.

With a bit of trimming this could have been broadcast during the wilderness years ABOUT people like Who fans. The fact that it is part of the actual series was a brave step. And NOT a brave step like Web Planet was a 'brave' step. That was foolhardy. THIS was brave, intelligently written with some heart, and bloody excellent. And just the kind of reason Russell was rewarded with a Dennis Potter award.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby tony ingram » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:34 pm

paulhickling wrote:Love and Monsters is quite simply a beautifully written tv play. The fact that it happens to be a Doctor Who episode too is pretty amazing. I like so many things about it that the paving slab adult joke is something that I uneasily prefer to ignore. Wrong slot for that kind of thing as far as I'm concerned.

But everything else is wonderful. The video diary, the romance with Rose's mum, the jamming sessions, ELO!, the affectionate dig at Who fans. SO, SO much better than the poorly aimed dig at fans in Greatest Show. The one in Greatest Show is a fool, and cardboard cut-out nerd. The ones in L&M are nice human beings who we like. And genuinely feel sorry for.

With a bit of trimming this could have been broadcast during the wilderness years ABOUT people like Who fans. The fact that it is part of the actual series was a brave step. And NOT a brave step like Web Planet was a 'brave' step. That was foolhardy. THIS was brave, intelligently written with some heart, and bloody excellent. And just the kind of reason Russell was rewarded with a Dennis Potter award.
None of which (even if I accepted it, which I don't) would excuse the utter stupidity of the conclusion. I'm sorry, but the Abzorbaloff was an embarrassment and the paving slab thing was just moronic. It was the kind of crap that gives Doctor who a bad name.
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Re: Tenth Doctor = Worst Doctor

Postby paulhickling » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:41 pm

Whereas I thought the idea of reversing the obvious thing to do with Peter Kay, ie. the real one having a northern accent and the monster being a typically voiced alien, turned on it's head, was rather amusing.
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