JNT vs Moffat

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TimeGate82
 
 
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Hello everyone. I would just like to hear everyone's opinion of the JNT and Steven Moffat era of Doctor Who. Who do you think stayed truer to the original ideal of the series, and who made the better job of it. I may post my personal opinion later on. But I would like to know if anyone feels similar to me on the subject. Thanks. :)
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iank
 
 
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There is no comparison. JNT was a terrific producer. He made a few mistakes, but most of the big problems in the mid 80s were down to BBC management, not him. The 80s are perpetually underrated, but mostly brilliant.

The Moffat era was a fecking trainwreck that finally put the nail in the coffin more than Grade ever could. When it finally gets the axe, hopefully quite soon now, I can't see many calling for it to return in 15 years. It's become a laughing stock.
(Doctor Who) has been hijacked and redefined as a lucrative modern franchise. They've literally taken a square peg and painfully made it fit a round hole by taking enormous liberties with much of its fundamental essence. There's no turning back now.

- ozymandias, The Leisure Hive 2010
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greystone_06
 
 
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JNT for me. He wasn't perfect, but when he took over the show he breathed new life back into it and continued to do so until Cartmel hammered the first nail into the coffin lid of a great show. Moffat hammered the show with his bloated ego until it died and finally hammered in the last nail.
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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Kajaboy
 
 
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JNT was great. Moffat came in like a over indulged fan boy and wiped him sweaty balls over the entire history of the show.
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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Ricky
 
 
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Of course it’s Planet Mondas so JNT made ‘a few mistakes’ and Moffat sux. No surprises there.
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Kajaboy
 
 
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I thought Moffat was the worst thing that could happen to the show........well I was wrong.
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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iank
 
 
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Ricky wrote:Of course it’s Planet Mondas so JNT made ‘a few mistakes’ and Moffat sux. No surprises there.
Sorry if reality causes butthurt, lad.
(Doctor Who) has been hijacked and redefined as a lucrative modern franchise. They've literally taken a square peg and painfully made it fit a round hole by taking enormous liberties with much of its fundamental essence. There's no turning back now.

- ozymandias, The Leisure Hive 2010
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DarachAnLaoch
 
 
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JNT did make mistakes. Every era of Doctor Who is flawed. It’s one of the most inconsistent shows around. For every Crusade there is a Web Planet, for every Talons there is an Underworld, for every Impossible Planet there is a Fear Her. However, when Moffat took over, he made Doctor Who consistent.......consistently bad. The writer and director of a particular story no longer had any bearing on the resulting quality, it was all put through a Moffat filter with his egotistical and obnoxious voice drowning out everything else.
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LizR
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I think there were a few decent stories in the Moff era, such as the one with the Dream Lord, "The Doctor's Wife", the Jamie Mathiesons and "The girl who waited". Although he annoyingly messed with the fundamental limits he'd put on the Angels, the Angels 2-parter was OK, and the Silence were a good idea ruined by a weak resolution. And a few others were reasonable, if flawed.

The problems for me were with almost every "epic" story Moff himself wrote for Xmas etc, with the exception of the first half of "A Christmas Carol" (which literally jumped the shark half way through). The "Time/Name/Age/Shoe size of the Doctor" and all the ones with the universe revolving around Clara/River/Amy.
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LizR
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Ricky wrote:Of course it’s Planet Mondas so JNT made ‘a few mistakes’ and Moffat sux. No surprises there.
A sensible contribution will be welcome if you have one. Name calling less so.
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DarachAnLaoch
 
 
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I should add that I really like series 5. All the Moffatisms that would eventually tank the show are present (as they are in his stories during the RTD era) except at that point they are more underlying. Once most people gave that series a positive response Moffat got too big for his boots and the show began it’s descent into being unwatchable, which I feel it was by the second half of Series 7 and has never recovered.
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pmname
 
 
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I hardly watched during Davison and Baker. Being a late teen/early twenties bloke it didn't fit my lifestyle. It wasn't until McCoy that I became engaged again and, outside the first 4, he's still favoured.
Throughout the '90's I got the '80's books and some vids and my appreciation of the era grew. By the 21st century, with all dvd's, I was happy. Watching season 19 on bluray now has been very enjoyable.

I watched all of Moffat live. I'm just not as precious about this series as many who post and I found the majority of his output interesting. There were serious downers; awful 'comedic' dialogue and, of course, total disrespect for Hartnell.
But he has an inventive mind and brought alot of colourful ideas. Irritating characters as well, but that's in this show's dna it seems.

On the whole I'm happy to have both in the bank. Each created different facets of the program. Moffat outstayed his welcome. JNT was reasonably consistent to the end.
paulhickling
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Different roles of course. JNT put requirements on his writers and head writer, Moff WAS one of the writers AND the head writer! Too much power with the latter, and not enough back up from the Beeb to make JNT's siller demands work.

Somehow JNT's efforts seem to come from the heart whereas Moff's come more from the ego. Whatever the reality, that's how it looks to this viewer.

That said, I think Moff isn't just a good writer, but a gifted one. There are lots of good things, ideas and full episodes/stories from him. Personally I think all his stories for RTD are classics. Then there are many others. Asylum of the Daleks being one. And despite getting fed up with all the gobbledegook/writing himself into a corner/over complicating things, I never wondered what was actually going on like I did with Ghostlight. Nor was I ever as dissatisfied with episodes and stories to the extent of the McCoys.

But I didn't like is over-writing and rewriting of the series' mythos. Just one example where he had too much power. No one to say..."hang on..." What the hell did he think he was doing putting Clara over everything?! That was the peak of his ego. Oh, and The Doctor we never heard of shoved into the mix. I'm sure I'll think of more if I sat here any longer. Must carry on with the washing before I get carried away!!! :lol:
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Cygnus Prime
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Andrew Cartmel spoke once of how he and Ben Aaronovitch wanted to include a scene in REMEMBRANCE where the Doctor destroys a Dalek with a bazooka.

JNT said no.

Of course, they were mighty upset, with Cartmel writing in his book: "Who wouldn't want to see that?!?", but JNT stood his ground, explaining to them "I am already letting you bend the character as much as I can!"

He may have had no story sense and have been burdened with many other faults, but the fact that JNT made this stand - and I think he was completely right to - earns him my respect over RTD, Moffat and Chibnall, who seem to feel obliged to tinker with the DNA, genesis and very mythos of the show - and it's central character - with conceited wild abandon.

I don't think that Sylvester would have been very happy playing the scene either, as he has spoken elsewhere of how it was important for the Doctor to be a non-violent hero when so many other heroes of the '80's were violent.
paulhickling
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I'm pretty sure too, that when JNT and Tom decided on the joke with the press about the hint of the possibility of a female Doctor, he insisted it was just that. A joke.

Sadly, after that every time the papers mentioned a possible new series of Doctor Who, the female Doctor idea was wheeled out, and now here we are.
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Cygnus Prime
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JNT was a master of publicity and anything went when it came to getting a headline in the paper for the show.

"THE TARDIS MUST GO!" etc.

Yes, just a joke - mainly on Tom's part - that JNT went along with, but now used as ammunition for people to say "As any true fan knows, they were talking about doing it as far back as the 1980's!".

But it was never going to happen on JNT's watch.... Never, never, never, never. :death:


And he sure as heck wasn't going to lay the groundwork for a future producer to make the change either, such as Moffat did for Chibnall, with Missy and the regenerating General on Gallifrey. plus Bill talking to the Doctor on the bench about Time Lords being advanced and about.... well, this.......



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