How Would You Fix Doctor Who

General Doctor Who discussion hosted by Planet Mondas Forum.
Joseph
 
 
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Most of us would agree that Doctor Who has lost its way now. IMO its not long for this world with falling ratings, a toxic fandom, and yet another gap year.

So how would you fix the awful mess the show has become and do you think it can be fixed?

I'm going to say that yes it can, but only if they take the following steps.

1/ Cancel the new series. Its doing more harm than good at this stage. Don't even bother with a series in 2020. Just get rid of it now and save us all the bother.

2/ Sell the show to Netflix. Netflix can do a much better job than the Beeb in the following ways. They can put money into it, they can return to the serialized format which the show so desperately needs. 45 minutes is too short a time to tell a proper Doctor Who story. You need time to build up the atmosphere, establish the planet he visits, the characters, the villains etc.

Netflix releases entire seasons in a oner so there is no reason they couldn't have stories spread across 4 episodes. Also Netflix could make the show a bit darker too. I'm not saying I want it so dark that kids can't watch it, but maybe a return more to the Hinchcliff era style.

3/ Cast Julian Richings as the Doctor. He's best known for playing Death in Supernatural.

Here he is in action.

https://youtu.be/TdcGanQgt9c

https://youtu.be/vK4T73n9GbU

He'd be a fantastic Doctor. He could capture his age, wisdom, and his more authoritative nature, as well as his ruthless streak. He'd also be a return to more of a Classic era type of Doctor. You definitely couldn't do a Tennant style romance with Richings. All the shipping Doctors and companions crap would be gone with him. The fact that he looks a little like Hartnell too is a nice bonus, though obviously not essential.

4/ Cast Dana Delorenzo and Colin O'Donaghue as the companions. They'd both be good choices. They're both attractive, have large followings, are likable, good actors, and both could bring a real physicality to the companions that's lacking from the new series.

The companions (and indeed the Doctors) used to do quite a lot of fighting in Old Who. Some companions like Leela, Ace, Barbara, Ian, and Jamie, and Zoe did a lot of fighting, but virtually none of the new companions do. None of the girls do (could you even imagine say Jenna Coleman smashing her way through a window?) Jack tended to shoot people, whilst Rory did a bit of fighting, but even then most of it was offscreen.

Id like too see more dynamic physical companions.

Here's Dana in action as Kelly in Ash vs Evil Dead fighting a Demonic puppet. https://youtu.be/cp-yQYulTP4

You can see how she'd be a perfect Ace/Leela style companion.

Here's Colin as Hook https://youtu.be/6M-zOhoi0-A He'd be a bit of a Jamie IMO. Certainly both Dana and Colin would be more dynamic than pretty much any new who companion since Karen and Arthur.

4/ Make sure NONE of the New Who folk are involved in it. No Fitzroy bast*rds. Get writers who want to write sci fi and not just virtue signal.

6/ Cast Robbie Kay as the Master. Robbie is famous for playing the evil version of Peter Pan in Once Upon A Time. Pan in this series was originally a horrible, miserable, deadbeat failure who abandoned his only son (Rumplestilskin) so he could regress to being a teenager forever on the magical land of Neverland. He then goes on to kidnap little kids and breaks them down into being his twisted servants and later he attempts to make his son suffer by cursing the town he lives in to eternal torment, and trying to murder his sons wife and child.

Kay was amazing as the evil Peter Pan. He did the old man in the young man's body superbly. You bought that he was Robert Carlyle, (who played the older Rumple's) father. He also brought a more restrained, cold, ad ruthless aspect to the villain which matches the old series Masters in Survival, Deadly Assassin and Terror of the Autons.

Here he is in action, tormenting his middle aged son Rumple.

https://youtu.be/YS9Z0yGxEkg

He'd be a brilliant Master, much better than Simm or Gomez. The Master should be cruel rather than CRAAAAAAZZZZZYYYYYY. Also it goes without saying that there'd be no shipping crap that the New Who inflicted on us between Robbie and Julian. I'd quite like a young, bratty Master opposite and old wise Doctor like Julian

7/ Controversial but I'd delete New Who from canon. Julian would be the 9th Doctor. I don't hate all of New Who but it has to go for practical reasons.

New Who has opened up such a can of worms with this gender bending crap. Now whenever we cast the new Doctor it'll be an ugly mess. There will be accusations of pandering to the left if they cast another woman, and accusations of promoting hatred of trans people if they change the Doctor back into a man. It needs to go.

New Who has f*cked up the continuity by making Clara the most important person in the shows history. Also a lot of the continuity is too crushing. If you want to have the Time Lords again, they have to be in hiding, hating the Doctor for what he did in Hell Bent etc.

7/ Bring Romana back and give her, her own series. Have it take place in E-Space and get proper actresses WHO IS RIGHT FOR IT. Ingrid Oliver, Amber Benson and Katey Sagal would be my top three choices, but there are lots of great actresses out there.

If they do this then the show can go on. If not its dead in about 2 years and its reputation destroyed.
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Bowtiesarecool
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Hire proper Sci-Fi writers, remove Series 11 and JW's Doctor from canon, treat the core fan base with respect again and not shove politics down viewers throats, keep fanboys away from the creative process and don't bow to a hateful minority that ruins everything that they touch.

But of course the real issue here is the BBC. As long as Doctor Who remains in their control, I see zero chances of any improvment and they will never give up Doctor Who.
The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

#NotmyDoctor
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Bowtiesarecool
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I think the problem is that there are many people who are insisting on shoving Jodie Whittaker's Doctor down our throats. You must accept her as The Doctor otherwise you are the worst person on earth or the ist types of remarks.

And that gets people's backs up. They- we hate the mudslinging and name calling that is going on in fandom. It's enough for many of us, me included to turn our backs on the show. I think the first step to fixing the New Series is to get a Doctor who is a unifying actor. Someone who an established actor in his own right and get a decent writing team, writers who can write Sci- Fi and stop shoving politics down the viewers throats. That was the worst thing for me, when watching Series Ten was the constant flinging of the ist type of insults.

Anyway, that's my two pence on the matter. I want Doctor Who to succeed, but I can't support it in its' current format.
Last edited by ericthehalfabee on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moved back here and edited a couple of typos, because I care. Eric xx
The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

#NotmyDoctor
ericthehalfabee
 
 
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Yep - I said on here a few weeks ago, personally I'd cancel it and go for a complete reboot on Netflix (or similar) in 10 years.

The problem is that it would be completely incomprehensible for the casual viewer to take it back to 1989, 1994, 2013 etc. So I'm not sure how it would work. I think just start again, then stick in the odd bit of fanwank like they did with Battlestar Galactica. It can't be worse than where we've ended up.

Sadly the BBC can't make this any more without dwelling on identity politics. I want Doctor Who to dwell on adventure.

I don't know if Julian Richings can do a non-Canadian accent (his natural accent is strongly Canadian with bits of English), but I would certainly keep the Doctor as a "British" character.
Joseph
 
 
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ericthehalfabee wrote:Yep - I said on here a few weeks ago, personally I'd cancel it and go for a complete reboot on Netflix (or similar) in 10 years.

The problem is that it would be completely incomprehensible for the casual viewer to take it back to 1989, 1994, 2013 etc. So I'm not sure how it would work. I think just start again, then stick in the odd bit of fanwank like they did with Battlestar Galactica. It can't be worse than where we've ended up.

Sadly the BBC can't make this any more without dwelling on identity politics. I want Doctor Who to dwell on adventure.

I don't know if Julian Richings can do a non-Canadian accent (his natural accent is strongly Canadian with bits of English), but I would certainly keep the Doctor as a "British" character.
I don't know if I'd wait ten years only because the damage that's been done in the last few years is so great that interest might fade completely in that time.

I completely get wanting a total reboot. Its continuity is so overbearing at this point that a clean slate does seem desirable.

Personally however I wouldn't like it if New Who was the only sequel to Classic Who and then became a part of it. I'd hate it if the Master's only canon ending was Missy, the Brig's was as a Cyber zombie floating in space, and that Clara was the most important person in the show.

I'd prefer it if we had at least one alternate sequel. My big hope is that Classic Doctor Who becomes like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes. Doyle's Holmes stories are the only canon. There are hundreds of sequels, but none are official. You are free to choose which if any are the true sequel.

Classic Who should be the only true canon IMO, with everything that happens after McGann just being one person, or teams idea of what happened next.

I don't think it would be a problem personally. You'd just have the new Doctor show up in the Netflix series a couple of years from now, and then into his run casually mention he is on his 9th life and that's that.

Then when that version finishes you could have yet another 9th Doctor in a third sequel. The 9th Doctor would then be the starting off point for all other sequels after that. Its kind of like Dan Dare and Godzilla.

After the original 1954 Godzilla was the starting off point for all of the various Godzilla series. Similarly after the 60s was the starting off point for various Dan Dare revivals that ignored each other but not the original.

I think that would be best for DW. That way ironically I think New Who would be looked on in a more favourable light. Rather than being the one true version, it would just be one teams idea of what came next.

As for Richings, well I get not wanting the Doctor to be non British, but Richings was actually born and raised in England. I also don't have that much of a problem with the Doctor being non British personally, but I understand its a big taboo for other fans as he is very much the British gentlemanly hero. However consider that the Americans have let us play their most beloved heroes. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man.
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Bowtiesarecool wrote:I think the problem is that there are many people who are insisting on shoving Jodie Whittaker's Doctor down our throats. You must accept her as The Doctor otherwise you are the worst person on earth or the ist types of remarks.

And that gets people's backs up. They- we hate the mudslinging and name calling that is going on in fandom. It's enough for many of us, me included to turn our backs on the show. I think the first step to fixing the New Series is to get a Doctor who is a unifying actor. Someone who an established actor in his own right and get a decent writing team, writers who can write Sci- Fi and stop shoving politics down the viewers throats. That was the worst thing for me, when watching Series Ten was the constant flinging of the ist type of insults.

Anyway, that's my two pence on the matter. I want Doctor Who to succeed, but I can't support it in its' current format.
I think the main problem is that people are still sh*tting their pants that the Doctor is now a woman and they’ve spent too much time playing the man (or the woman in this sense) that they’ve forgotten all about the ball.

The problem is that for whatever reason, probably to try and imitate Tennant, they’ve made the Doctor like your daffy (or zany or wacky, insert stupid term of choosing here) aunt. Personally I’d like to see what Jodie can do without having to be a female Tennant and have a half decent script. Perhaps it’s never going to happen whilst Chibnall is there. Obviously you can’t cast a woman and make them a string character, they have to act all zany.

The problem here is, and this the first error of judgement, is to target the programme at 7 year olds. Chibnall may crap on about taking the programme back to its roots, but it’s never been for 7 year olds. The show brought back historicals, but for whatever reason and another error of judgement, grafted on pointless aliens as if to explain everything, without adding anything to the story at all.

Possibly the best example of this dumbing down was in the seasons worse story, the Tsuranga Conundrum, where Chibnall’s dumbing down writing paused what little action was occurring so Jodie could explain to the kiddies what anti matter is. It was poorly inserted and amateurishly conceived and directed.

Another problem all round, and this is yet another showrunner/script problem, is the poor imitation of other (better) Doctor Who stories.

Lastly the show isn’t for the likes of you and I any more. Sorry to keep harping on about it, but it’s long past that I’m afraid. Buy the blu-ray sets and remember when it was compulsory viewing. With any luck we may get some stuff most of us have never seen from Phil Morris and co. Which will be terrific as long as BBC America don’t try and do something completely moronic like trying to colourise it!

Can Chibnall turn it around? Probably not. I don’t think he has the talent. Maybe if he doubles the intended audiences age and gets others to write most of the stories then there is hope. There were glimmers throughout the season.

The writers need to learn that Grahame isn’t the only companion and one of them has to go. I was watching the blu-ray of Earthshock the other day and even in a story as good as that Nyssa has bugger all to do. Three is too many.

I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but good sci-fi has always been political. It’s set in the future but is often about the now. Depends on your skill as a writer, you can either make your point subtly, or you can make it with a sledgehammer.

Come on Chibnall, reject the Peter Gabriel approach.
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I should also have added that there was a wonderful opportunity for the producers to renew the programme in a positive after the excesses of the Moffat era.

They could have made it like season 7, probably the best new Doctor seasons we are ever likely to see.

Unfortunately they made it worse than Colin Baker’s first season.

Opportunity lost I’m afraid.
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I would cancel it... Full stop..
Now that we all know about the rude bits, aren't they rude? And as we get older, they get ruder and ruder. :oops:
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Heccypoo wrote:I would cancel it... Full stop..
That was my Plan B. 8-)
The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

#NotmyDoctor
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Bowtiesarecool wrote:
Heccypoo wrote:I would cancel it... Full stop..
That was my Plan B. 8-)
Unfortunately, regardless of what any of us think, if it continues to pull in reasonable viewing figures they will never do that.
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It is......and has been done. Politics destroyed it. You can have Art or Politics but you cannot have both.

And now you have neither.

It is dead.

Bury it.

Moot point as for millions, it already HAS ceased to exist.
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Pam wakes up from a dream and finds Doctor 10 in the shower. The last 8 years have been a dream.
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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Kajaboy wrote:Pam wakes up from a dream and finds Doctor 10 in the shower. The last 8 years have been a dream.
As I wrote elsewhere. DELTA AND THE BANNERMAN is not a suicide pact. Just ignore it. It never happened.

Next season. Doctor is a man. The Master is a man. No politics. The Doctor lands on a planet and strange things are happening. The Doctor investigates. Has nothing to do with politics. If there are no writers who cannot leave their inner commissar back at the flat, there is over 200 years of sci fic. Steal some. Public domain starts after 70 years.

Go.

But this won't happen.

For there to be improvements, there must be an admission that mistakes were made and who thinks that will happen??

:roll:
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bobmcpherson wrote:It is......and has been done. Politics destroyed it. You can have Art or Politics but you cannot have both.

And now you have neither.

It is dead.

Bury it.

Moot point as for millions, it already HAS ceased to exist.
?

Political art? :?
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Do what Moffat tried so hard to do and scrap it. Too much damage has been done by third-rate hacks, who see themselves as first-rate professionals. It will never be Doctor Who again. The morons at the BBC don't deserve the property, nor the license fee. Personally, I think that outdated, out of touch institution should be scrapped as well. :death:
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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Kajaboy wrote:Pam wakes up from a dream and finds Doctor 10 in the shower. The last 8 years have been a dream.
Chibnall does have a habit of nicking other people's ideas, so it might just work!
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And as usual, the discussion degenerates into infinite variations on "everything I personally don't like is worthless and should be thrown out." How depressingly predictable.

The BBC are never going to be stupid enough to give up Doctor Who, and nor should they. Certainly not to Netflix, or any other foreign company. Doctor Who is British. It belongs here. Likewise, the Doctor should always be played by a British actor. And they are never going to alienate a generation of fans by simply forgetting about the last fourteen (mostly hugely successful) years in order to placate a comparative handful of middle aged moaners. That would be ridiculous. All the show needs is to be put in the hands of someone who, unlike Chris Chibnall, actually understands it and knows how to write engaging science fiction rather than using it as a soapbox.
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tony ingram wrote:All the show needs is to be put in the hands of someone who, unlike Chris Chibnall, actually understands it and knows how to write engaging science fiction rather than using it as a soapbox.
It seems to me that apart from the BBC issue you're in perfect alignment with everyone else here.
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tony ingram wrote:And as usual, the discussion degenerates into infinite variations on "everything I personally don't like is worthless and should be thrown out." How depressingly predictable.

The BBC are never going to be stupid enough to give up Doctor Who, and nor should they. Certainly not to Netflix, or any other foreign company. Doctor Who is British. It belongs here. Likewise, the Doctor should always be played by a British actor. And they are never going to alienate a generation of fans by simply forgetting about the last fourteen (mostly hugely successful) years in order to placate a comparative handful of middle aged moaners. That would be ridiculous. All the show needs is to be put in the hands of someone who, unlike Chris Chibnall, actually understands it and knows how to write engaging science fiction rather than using it as a soapbox.
I don't think the Doctor has to be played specifically by an English/British actor..

Just an actor who is right for the part.

At the moment, Doctor Strange, Spider- Man, Loki and Superman are all played by British actors, but are all from American comics originally.

Thor is played by an Australian, but no one's perfect... 8-)

I don't follow it, I don't like Zombies, but one of the lead actors in The Walking Dead was a brit..

James Bond has been played by an American, a South African, a Scotsman, an Irish man, a Welsh man and an Australian .. And in Daniel Craig's case, an Ironing Board...

I don't think that it disqualifies any actor, of any nationality from playing a role. As long as they are good actors..


Just don't swap them for a woman and we'll all be ok.. 8-)
Now that we all know about the rude bits, aren't they rude? And as we get older, they get ruder and ruder. :oops:
Joseph
 
 
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tony ingram wrote:And as usual, the discussion degenerates into infinite variations on "everything I personally don't like is worthless and should be thrown out." How depressingly predictable.

The BBC are never going to be stupid enough to give up Doctor Who, and nor should they. Certainly not to Netflix, or any other foreign company. Doctor Who is British. It belongs here. Likewise, the Doctor should always be played by a British actor. And they are never going to alienate a generation of fans by simply forgetting about the last fourteen (mostly hugely successful) years in order to placate a comparative handful of middle aged moaners. That would be ridiculous. All the show needs is to be put in the hands of someone who, unlike Chris Chibnall, actually understands it and knows how to write engaging science fiction rather than using it as a soapbox.
I don't see any problem with an American actor playing the Doctor and as for this outdated idea that the Americans would ruin Doctor Who I have to :floorroll: :floorroll: :floorroll: :floorroll: :floorroll: :floorroll: :floorroll: at that.

In what way could the Americans make a worse fist of it than the BRITISH Fitzroy crowd did?

What Doctor/Companion romances, sex changing the Doctor and the Master, Doctor/Master slash bullsh*t actually being made canon, Doctor and the TARDIS wanting to shag each other, Cyber Brig, the Doctor being made President of earth, companions being made the centre of the universe, show becoming an embarrassing piece of propaganda for the BBC etc.

What can they do to top that?

Also I would like to point out that the success of New Who has been grossly exaggerated.

Series 1-4 were successful, but consider the following factors.

Classic Doctor Who still had a massive following in the years it was off the air. I am not a middle aged moaner. I am in my twenties. I was introduced to Classic Who on video in the 90s and it was my fave show. I never saw it as a joke, I had plenty of friends who liked it too. Now obviously that is just my experience, but I find people like me are airbrushed out of history as we don't fit into the Russell saved Doctor Who narrative.

Instead they'll always trot out self loathing fanboys who go on about how nobody ever liked the show until Russell came along.

In the 90s right through to the early 00s ALL Classic Who stories that existed were released on video in both the UK and the US. Most of them were best sellers too (or else they wouldn't have kept releasing them.) You could still get Doctor Who merchandise in shops right up until the 00s before New Who (I have several Dalek toys from my childhood that will attest to that.)

Also in the year 2002 when the British public were asked which old series they'd most like to see come back, Doctor Who topped the poll, and the majority of people who voted were under 20. Thus despite what people like RTD make out, the show DID not only maintain its devoted following in the 90s, but it also made new fans too.

Also Classic Who has continued to be massive since. Last year Classic Who was the best selling sci fi show on DVD AND Blue Ray in the world.

See here. http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-new ... 17__21680/

So with this in mind I think its fair to say that New Who piggy backed off of Classic Who's popularity at first in 2005 (its worth noting that until the first episode of series 4, the most watched episode of the entire RTD era was Rose, his first episode.)

During Tennant's time meanwhile it continued to be popular because of the romance, but even then that wasn't a good formula for long term success as that meant that modern viewers came to see the Doctor as a romantic character, making it difficult for them to do something different. You can see this with Matt and Peter who try to do something different at first, but are then forced into being Tennant clones with similar romantic plot lines with Clara.

The show began to stagnate a bit in Matt's time. Though the 50th gave it a push, viewers were down, and they continued to sink in the Capaldi era to the point where they were at the lowest they have ever been! Jodie was given a slight push at first due to the novelty, but now she's failing terribly.

Then there are all the hiatuses too. Really DW has not be a popular show since 2013. Since that was the year of the 50th whose to say it might not have been earlier had it not been for that massive hype?

The New Who formula was a failure IMO. It was a hit at first due to nostalgia, and then maintained a bit of success due to the romantic angle, but that boxed the show into a corner.

Of course all the feminist pandering has only further contributed to its death, but still that also came about because of the New Who formula. This idea that Doctor Who has NO identity, all change is good, there's no continuity to the show, the Doctor can be anyone etc.

That crap was brought in initially to justify things like the Doctor falling in love with a teenager, the writers not having to bother maintaining any kind of back story (like earth being aware of aliens) the Masters drums, emo Doctors etc, and the feminists seized on that to push their crap of gender bending time lords and eventually Jodie.

All of New Who needs snipped away for the good of the franchise. Its happened before. Look at Dan Dare.

You had the original 50s-60s series then there was a sequel in the 70s, and when that finished, you had an 80s series that ignored the 70s one. Godzilla similarly had various alternate continuities.
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