The Worst Moments of New-Who

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Happygolucky
 
 
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LizR wrote:
Happygolucky wrote:The only thing that stood out in my mind which I applaud was the 4 mile long Mondasian space ship which had 2 enormously different time zones at either end of the ship due to the effect of the black hole it was parked next to. Of course the second half of that story reverted back to type and was total bollox !!!
Regards HGL
It's lucky they found a non-rotating black hole, too, or that spaceship would have been torn apart regardless of what it was made from. :geek:
Event horizon me thinks. ;)

Regards HGL
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LizR
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I assume it was outside the event horizon, or it would have been spaghetti anyway. However, rotating holes also have an "ergosphere" in which literally nothing can stand still (light orbits the hole inside the ergosphere). But even outside that, the stresses on a solid object with a significant time dilation disparity along its length would be impossible - the old irresistible force meeting an immovable object, except that in Relativity theory there are no immovable objects. The simplest way to think about it is that the orbital velocity of one end of the ship, closer to the hole, would be faster than the orbital velocity of the far end. On the Moon, with its sides at different distances from Earth, this difference has caused tidal drag that has stopped it rotating relative to Earth. Near a black hole those forces are billions of times stronger, so even a non-rotating hole would shred the spaceship - a rotating one (the only sort thought to actually exist) would have turned it into an X-ray hot disc. See Larry Niven's story "Neutron star" for a graphic description - but drastically toned down - of what it would be like aboard the spaceship:
[quote] The dictaphone was fifty feet below, utterly unreachable. If I had anything more to say to General Products, I'd have to say it in person. Maybe I'd get the chance. Because I knew what force was trying to tear the ship apart. It was the tide. The motor was off, and I was at the ship's midpoint. My spread-eagled position was getting uncomfortable. It was four minutes to perihelion. Something creaked in the cabin below me. I couldn't see what it was, but I could clearly see a red point glaring among blue radial lines, like a lantern at the bottom of a well. To the sides, between the fusion tube and the tanks and other equipment, the blue stars glared at me with a light that was almost violet. I was afraid to look too long. I actually thought they might blind me. There must have been hundreds of gravities in the cabin. I could even feel the pressure change. The air was thin at this height, one hundred and fifty feet above the control room. And now, almost suddenly, the red dot was more than a dot. My time was up. A red disk leapt up at me; the ship swung around me; I gasped and shut my eyes tight.[/quote] That gives some idea of what life would really be like aboard a huge spacecraft. In particular, the hull would have to be made of unobtainium (like Niven's General Products hull in the story) to withstand the forces.

However, kudos to them for having made the attempt. I was only being pedantic, pointing out that in reality things wouldn't have worked as shown, and a decent SF writer would have looked into the whole thing in more detail (but then, even Niven got the physics of "Ringworld" wrong).
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Happygolucky
 
 
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LizR wrote:I assume it was outside the event horizon, or it would have been spaghetti anyway. However, rotating holes also have an "ergosphere" in which literally nothing can stand still (light orbits the hole inside the ergosphere). But even outside that, the stresses on a solid object with a significant time dilation disparity along its length would be impossible - the old irresistible force meeting an immovable object, except that in Relativity theory there are no immovable objects. The simplest way to think about it is that the orbital velocity of one end of the ship, closer to the hole, would be faster than the orbital velocity of the far end. On the Moon, with its sides at different distances from Earth, this difference has caused tidal drag that has stopped it rotating relative to Earth. Near a black hole those forces are billions of times stronger, so even a non-rotating hole would shred the spaceship - a rotating one (the only sort thought to actually exist) would have turned it into an X-ray hot disc. See Larry Niven's story "Neutron star" for a graphic description - but drastically toned down - of what it would be like aboard the spaceship:
[quote] The dictaphone was fifty feet below, utterly unreachable. If I had anything more to say to General Products, I'd have to say it in person. Maybe I'd get the chance. Because I knew what force was trying to tear the ship apart. It was the tide. The motor was off, and I was at the ship's midpoint. My spread-eagled position was getting uncomfortable. It was four minutes to perihelion. Something creaked in the cabin below me. I couldn't see what it was, but I could clearly see a red point glaring among blue radial lines, like a lantern at the bottom of a well. To the sides, between the fusion tube and the tanks and other equipment, the blue stars glared at me with a light that was almost violet. I was afraid to look too long. I actually thought they might blind me. There must have been hundreds of gravities in the cabin. I could even feel the pressure change. The air was thin at this height, one hundred and fifty feet above the control room. And now, almost suddenly, the red dot was more than a dot. My time was up. A red disk leapt up at me; the ship swung around me; I gasped and shut my eyes tight.


That gives some idea of what life would really be like aboard a huge spacecraft. In particular, the hull would have to be made of unobtainium (like Niven's General Products hull in the story) to withstand the forces.

However, kudos to them for having made the attempt. I was only being pedantic, pointing out that in reality things wouldn't have worked as shown, and a decent SF writer would have looked into the whole thing in more detail (but then, even Niven got the physics of "Ringworld" wrong).[/quote]

We do have to allow a little artistic licence , I mean the Tardis is an impossibility anyway!! like you say , kudos for the attempt. I always thought that with Black Holes, sitting just beyond the event horizon was just possible as you were avoiding the point of no return ergo "Event Horizon" ? Anyway Tomato tomarto, you get my drift,? It's fun to speculate, yes? My point still stands though with New Who, they should try and educate the audience with more science, but I guess that would require some effort as in "research"? :D
Regards HGL
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Educate the audience? That's the last thing nuWho wants to do. They can't even do it with the historicals.

Surely Who is the only thing in recent years that insisted that vikings had to be 'Hollywood' vikings, with horned helmets, when Hollywood and others have stopped? I'm pretty sure that in the very same week of the viking episode with the kid from Game of Thrones aired, the Beeb premiered a new adult viking series (The Last KIngdom) without horned helmets. The SAME CHANNEL! If that's not presuming your audience is thick, I don't know what is.

Just the sort of episode to have Newman, Lambert, and Lucarotti spinning in their graves.
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The Ginger Cat wrote:The one where the Moon's a f*****g egg that hatches into a flying space dragon thing, which then immediately 'lays' another egg, that looks identical to the Moon - the exact same size etc., in exactly the same spot. Utter bollocks.
Holy cow, yes! How on earth did that even get beyond commissioning stage? Nonsensical twaddle, dressed up in psuedo-science babble. The team that put this together probably think Marco Polo is boring too. :shock:
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Caligari71 wrote:
The Ginger Cat wrote:The one where the Moon's a f*****g egg that hatches into a flying space dragon thing, which then immediately 'lays' another egg, that looks identical to the Moon - the exact same size etc., in exactly the same spot. Utter bollocks.
Holy cow, yes! How on earth did that even get beyond commissioning stage? Nonsensical twaddle, dressed up in psuedo-science babble. The team that put this together probably think Marco Polo is boring too. :shock:
Shame. Coz I thought it was a great episode in many ways (mainly production) until that idea turned up. Utter rubbish. And just as bad, we know that it won't be brought up again. Anything to do with the moon in future I reckon is unlikely to mention it ever again. Stay away from such ideas because they're stupid! They couldn't even have the sense to make it another planet's moon!! Something that would have completely sidestepped most problems, but then it wouldn't be the 'event'. Just as Romana or The Rani being used instead of female Masters and Doctors isn't good enough to get the headlines.

And this is something else. No one in the past wanted the 'credit' of changing or doing something SO annoying. The modern bunch seem to be after the dubious fame of this 'game changing' thing. The main difference between the old crowd and the new. MASSIVE egoes.
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Joseph wrote:
Caligari71 wrote:After the awful double barrel of 'Love and Monsters' and 'Fear Her' I really wondered if nu Who hadn't plumbed the depths, that is until Steven Moffat took over. Despite a promising start, things went downhill faster than Lizzie Yarnold, which was even more disappointing, as our expectations were almost unfairly raised by his replacement of the erratic RTD. The awful sex change nonsense was the utter nadir, which proved that nothing was sacred and the whole history of the programme could be swept aside at the whim of such sneering, self-aggrandizing twonks, with neither love or respect for the show.

It's dead to the point I now wish it hadn't come back. The show is nothing more than a hollowed out corpse, (ab)using the warm memories a lot of fans once had for it; an act of unforgivable cultural vandalism. How he managed to emasculate Sherlock Holmes at the same time beggars belief. I can't wait for the adaptation of Dracula, where the titular villain is played by, or undermined every week by, a smart-arse, wise-cracking female character.
Excellent post. Glad to see some common sense around these parts.


Anyone who is defending the show at this point is behaving foolishly.

There is no doubt that the show has been taken over by an agenda, worse still a hateful, spiteful agenda, aimed at upsetting long time fans of the show. Here is an article about it I did. https://t.co/CmgNhqs6W1

Moffhack is the worst thing to ever happen to the show along with Chinballs. I want to go back in time to that picture of Moff as a little boy reading the Daleks, rip the book out of his hands, and stick in a book belonging to a franchise I am not a fan of. Even then though I think that would be a little unfair just to condemn a franchise that I don't particularly care much for to his clamy embrace.
Totally agree about the female spin-offs. I suggested Romana ages ago. But it doesn't suit their purpose. Those female alternatives could even be put out as Doctor Who. I mean, Blake's 7 without Blake? Red Dwarf without Red Dwarf? Easy enough to make it a search for The Doctor. This could run for as many years as the Doctors last these days, and they could have those years speculating like crazy who it will be when he's found. It could also go to alternative universes where some Doctors didn't regenerate, including ALL the currently living past ones. The possibilities are endless. They could have as much fun as they want even in the oh so modern way.

Of course if you're wanting the ego trip instead you go for headline grabbing ideas that upset the loyal fanbase of 50 odd years...
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LizR
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paulhickling wrote:Educate the audience? That's the last thing nuWho wants to do. They can't even do it with the historicals.

Surely Who is the only thing in recent years that insisted that vikings had to be 'Hollywood' vikings, with horned helmets, when Hollywood and others have stopped? I'm pretty sure that in the very same week of the viking episode with the kid from Game of Thrones aired, the Beeb premiered a new adult viking series (The Last KIngdom) without horned helmets. The SAME CHANNEL! If that's not presuming your audience is thick, I don't know what is.
I thought those were space helmets for cows. :cow:
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Happygolucky
 
 
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LizR wrote: I thought those were space helmets for cows. :cow:
Yes , quite!! :D
I know this is the Worst Of New Who thread but, I just have to say that The Time Meddler is a stupendous 4 episodes!!
Bill Hartnell and Peter Butterworth are on fantastic form, Douglas Camfield as director too!!!. They will never make any New Who that can compete with stories like that, never!!! Okay back on subject, I've got my ten penneth in :D
Regards HGL
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Happygolucky wrote:
LizR wrote: I thought those were space helmets for cows. :cow:
Yes , quite!! :D
I know this is the Worst Of New Who thread but, I just have to say that The Time Meddler is a stupendous 4 episodes!!
Bill Hartnell and Peter Butterworth are on fantastic form, Douglas Camfield as director too!!!. They will never make any New Who that can compete with stories like that, never!!! Okay back on subject, I've got my ten penneth in :D
Regards HGL
And pi**es all over The Girl Who Died. The Time Meddler has plenty of respect for the period, and still time plenty of the right humour, and it's not even written by Lucarotti!
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A WOMAN
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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RTD left.
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Kajaboy wrote:A WOMAN
Is right. Peed all over a lifetime's devotion to a beloved male character.
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Kajaboy
 
 
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StellarX wrote:
Is right. Peed all over a lifetime's devotion to a beloved male character.

Pretty much. I mean I was on the verge of giving up anyway. It was only Capaldi keeping me going but when they announced JW I just stopped caring completely.
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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tony ingram
 
 
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Servorobot wrote:RTD left.
No, that was the best moment.
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Journey's End
River Song
Humanizing the Silurians visually
The War Doctor
Danny Pink
Missy (aka Geoffina Mk I-lost-count)
Dollar General version Jane Horrocks... I mean Jodie
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Everytime FAM is mentioned !!!
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Braxiatel wrote: Danny Pink
I still laugh when I think of him crossing that road.
My next door neighbour mixed up her KY jelly with the superglue. I asked her how she managed that but her lips are sealed.
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Ooh that reminds me...

[DWPoop] Master Car - Episode 6

paulhickling
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When THAT BLOODY WOMAN took her hood off in the woods!
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