Rate A Christmas Carol

Rate A Christmas Carol

10
92
23%
9
64
16%
8
70
18%
7
48
12%
6
40
10%
5
24
6%
4
19
5%
3
22
6%
2
8
2%
1
11
3%
 
Total votes: 398
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Mike Nuttall
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Whovian wrote:
LizR wrote: Where is the Lennon to Moffat's McCartney, the person who says yes, some good ideas but it needs more work? This so needs the person with the final say on the script not to be the person writing it!
Some of RTD's scripts smacked of being first draft and the same with SM. I'm not saying any of them were bad scripts but they could have been improved if a script editor had cast an objective eye over them before the final draft.
I agree with a lot of what you've both said. The problem was much less noticeable for me during the RTD era because I found the characters engaging and the stories exciting. I think RTD had a gift for making even the smallest characters come to life in his scripts. Having said that I agree that the showrunner shouldn't be editing his own scripts. Writers can't be relied upon to assess their own work objectively, they're only human after all; ultimately isn't that what a script editor's there to do? Steven Moffat is another extremely talented writer but again, a script editor wouldn't hurt.
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I watched this again last night with my best mate. He's a fan but didn't watch it Xmas day, he couldn't be bothered as he says that RTD ruined the show for him, and he still hasn't watched Waters of Mars i found out LOL.
Anyway, he really enjoyed it saying it was the best Xmas episode yet and then we had a quick chat about the story and what has been said by fans about it on forums. First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old. We came to the conclusion that the Blinovitch limation effect does not apply at christmas, making all the time travel in the story perfectly logical and after talking about comments from fans on diffrent forums we came to the final conclusion that it's just a entertaining TV show so just forget about all these niggling little problems and just sit back and enjoy it. :D
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Hey Liz - remember it WASN'T always case of Lennon putting MORE work or ideas into McCartney's material....they EACH did it for each other....something they each really missed badly later post Beatles...

..., and by his OWN admission John Lennon was LAZY....Paul McCartney overall did by far the more actual musical work on John's songs than vice versa ....plus things like slotting his song snippet into the middle of 'A Day in The Life' when John had no middle part to it.......and years later even in correcting John's naff bass playing on 'The Long and Winding Road' for 'Let it Be...Naked'

often now John gets spoken off in glowing terms (not meaning by you Liz)...mainly as he's dead !
- something John would have detested (per his song: 'Nobody Loves You (When your Down and Out) '.....where he sings: 'Everybody loves you when your six feet in the ground'

RE Doctor Who - I don't think the 'showrunner' - that is 'Dictator' concept is a very good idea at all....such a show needs a STRONG Producer, a decent Script Editor....and quality Directors....to make it work properly, by a pooling of talent and ideas...

otherwise you get a situation where ONE Individual's mind and their will and desires ......is duly all powerful....be it The Supreme Dalek, Animus, The Meddling Monk, Mavic Chen, WOTAN, Tobias Vaughn, Salamander, BOSS, Xoanon, Davros, Harrison Chase,Morbius, Sutekh, Weng Chiang,Count Grendle, Monarch, The Gravis, The Master,The Rani, Borussa, Sil, Fenric, etc...

.......the VERY THING the programme always depicted as being very dangerous indeed.....
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The Nimon wrote: First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old.

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
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Mike Nuttall wrote:
Whovian wrote:
LizR wrote: Where is the Lennon to Moffat's McCartney, the person who says yes, some good ideas but it needs more work? This so needs the person with the final say on the script not to be the person writing it!
Some of RTD's scripts smacked of being first draft and the same with SM. I'm not saying any of them were bad scripts but they could have been improved if a script editor had cast an objective eye over them before the final draft.
I agree with a lot of what you've both said. The problem was much less noticeable for me during the RTD era because I found the characters engaging and the stories exciting. I think RTD had a gift for making even the smallest characters come to life in his scripts. Having said that I agree that the showrunner shouldn't be editing his own scripts. Writers can't be relied upon to assess their own work objectively, they're only human after all; ultimately isn't that what a script editor's there to do? Steven Moffat is another extremely talented writer but again, a script editor wouldn't hurt.
Beautifully put Mikey.
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Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote: First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old.

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
Yeah i did think that myself. It did get a bit confusing when it included the little boy though. Was that the same boy who threw something at Gambon who the Doctor was doing the card traick with?
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The Nimon wrote:
Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote: First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old.

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
Yeah i did think that myself. It did get a bit confusing when it included the little boy though. Was that the same boy who threw something at Gambon who the Doctor was doing the card traick with?
Difficult to say. Maybe card trick boy is the father or a much younger brother of the boy who chucked the coal? According to the Radio Times, "Steve" and "Boy" are played by the same actor
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Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote:
Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote: First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old.

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
Yeah i did think that myself. It did get a bit confusing when it included the little boy though. Was that the same boy who threw something at Gambon who the Doctor was doing the card traick with?
Difficult to say. Maybe card trick boy is the father or a much younger brother of the boy who chucked the coal? According to the Radio Times, "Steve" and "Boy" are played by the same actor
Which in itself would pretty much seem to indicate that they are two different characters. I took it that the coal chucking kid was the son of the card trick kid.
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tony ingram wrote:
Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote:
Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote: First thing he didn't understand was Cathrone Jenkins familly, how come her sister didn't seem to age, she looked the same when Gambon's chrater was young and old.

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
Yeah i did think that myself. It did get a bit confusing when it included the little boy though. Was that the same boy who threw something at Gambon who the Doctor was doing the card traick with?
Difficult to say. Maybe card trick boy is the father or a much younger brother of the boy who chucked the coal? According to the Radio Times, "Steve" and "Boy" are played by the same actor
Which in itself would pretty much seem to indicate that they are two different characters. I took it that the coal chucking kid was the son of the card trick kid.
Then we are in agreement. Hurrah and felicitations!

I must say it's a little weird, and indeed confusing to have two actors in the same role unless you specifically state that one character is the son of another
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Final rating of 12.11 million with a 41.8% audience share. Fourth highest rated episode since the series returned.

:Tardis:
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tony ingram
 
 
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Nobbend wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Nobbend wrote:
The Nimon wrote:
Nobbend wrote:

I think you'll find that the sister was played by both a younger and older actress and while they seemed to be wearing the same clobber there is a distinct difference
Yeah i did think that myself. It did get a bit confusing when it included the little boy though. Was that the same boy who threw something at Gambon who the Doctor was doing the card traick with?
Difficult to say. Maybe card trick boy is the father or a much younger brother of the boy who chucked the coal? According to the Radio Times, "Steve" and "Boy" are played by the same actor
Which in itself would pretty much seem to indicate that they are two different characters. I took it that the coal chucking kid was the son of the card trick kid.
Then we are in agreement. Hurrah and felicitations!

I must say it's a little weird, and indeed confusing to have two actors in the same role unless you specifically state that one character is the son of another
I guess they just assumed the audience would work it out from the fact that the sister had aged.
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aggedor wrote:Final rating of 12.11 million with a 41.8% audience share. Fourth highest rated episode since the series returned.

:Tardis:
That's encouraging.
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I think on the whole, Matt and the new team have gone down fantastically well with the general audience.
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Nobbend wrote: Difficult to say. Maybe card trick boy is the father or a much younger brother of the boy who chucked the coal? According to the Radio Times, "Steve" and "Boy" are played by the same actor
Which in itself would pretty much seem to indicate that they are two different characters. I took it that the coal chucking kid was the son of the card trick kid.[/quote]

Then we are in agreement. Hurrah and felicitations!

I must say it's a little weird, and indeed confusing to have two actors in the same role unless you specifically state that one character is the son of another[/quote]

I did wonder, it must be that then. I thought he might have traveled to the present with them but then it didn't explain how they knew the young Gambon charter
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tony ingram wrote:I think on the whole, Matt and the new team have gone down fantastically well with the general audience.
I totally agree, 12.11 mil is an excellent rating for the show. I feel completely vindicated in thinking that both Matt Smith, Karen Gillan and the Moff are doing a good job and are indeed the right people for the job
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Fantastic ratings!
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tony ingram wrote:I think on the whole, Matt and the new team have gone down fantastically well with the general audience.
Yes it reminds me of the time when we left the era of the Firsts Doctor and moved to the Second Doctors Era with its new production style!

Change, change, change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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alvin wrote:Hey Liz - remember it WASN'T always case of Lennon putting MORE work or ideas into McCartney's material....they EACH did it for each other....something they each really missed badly later post Beatles...
Yes, I know, I could equally have put that the other way around. To be honest I just mentally tossed a coin. It would have been too awkward a sentence if I'd spelled it out in full!
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The Nimon wrote:we came to the final conclusion that it's just a entertaining TV show so just forget about all these niggling little problems and just sit back and enjoy it. :D
Blasphemy!
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LizR
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Mike Nuttall wrote:I agree with a lot of what you've both said. The problem was much less noticeable for me during the RTD era because I found the characters engaging and the stories exciting. I think RTD had a gift for making even the smallest characters come to life in his scripts. Having said that I agree that the showrunner shouldn't be editing his own scripts. Writers can't be relied upon to assess their own work objectively, they're only human after all; ultimately isn't that what a script editor's there to do? Steven Moffat is another extremely talented writer but again, a script editor wouldn't hurt.
RTD's characterisation was often rather sketchy and/or cliched. He had two bus-loads of cardboard cut-outs, for example...mind you, if they worked together, with RTD doing the characterisation and Moffat the plot, things might work out better.

Although tbh some of Moffat's plotting is rather meh.

Yes, they both need(ed) a script editor!
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