The dalek paradigm

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tony ingram
 
 
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LizR wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
LizR wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Why do you keep capitalizing "paradigm"? It's not actually their name...
Becasue it's easier to call them something short and snappy.

"Ridiculous Day-glo teletubbie Daleks" is just too much to type every time.
But it doesn't actually make sense. Without adding in the "new", you're basically just calling them "pattern Daleks"or "model Daleks". Or, worse (if you don't type in "Daleks" afterwards), just "patterns" or "models".
"Doesn't make sense" ? Surely not...! :lol:
Why not just call them "the new Daleks"?
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How about the'sh*te Daleks?

I'll get me coat....
Now that we all know about the rude bits, aren't they rude? And as we get older, they get ruder and ruder. :oops:
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Heccypoo wrote:How about the'sh*te Daleks?

I'll get me coat....
Don't bother getting your coat, you're quite right except you can leave out the word Dalek! If Tony's uptight about the fact that my use of the capital is wrong because I'm not including 'New Dalek' before it, I'm afraid he's just going to have to live with it. Calling these diabolical blimps Daleks is an insult to the "supreme power of the universe"! Lol. So for me, simply 'Paradigms' is the most polite thing I find myself calling them.

Notice, when I remember I usually call their story 'Victory' of the Daleks, because for me it's anything but a victory. Travesty, Destruction, Assassination, are all more appropriate words. There are many more. It's almost as if someone actually thought "what's the best way to take an all-time classic icon of science fiction and ruin it? I know, make them look as ugly, stupid, garish, cheap, fat and as plastic as I possibly can".

And you know, I'm sure this is all because of their creator's (ok, one of them) comments on that dvd extra when Ed Thomas kindly showed him 'round the workshop, where he criticised the rivets. But to me the rivets are like dirty spaceships that roar in outer space. Dramatic licence cancels common sense for a more satisfactory result. The rivets ARE of course non-futuristic, at best steampunk. But they, together with the metallic paint job of the creatures sell them as hard b**tards. They look the business.

If it's any consolation to the 'Moff era is best' crowd let me say I hated RTD's red Supreme Dalek too. Those lumps look stupid and mar the aforementioned iconic design. Without them a red Dalek finally in the series would have been great, and at least it was still METALLIC red. But they had to spoil it.

I wonder deep down what Moff thinks. Because he's already admitted to the other turkey in Series 5, The Beast Below, possibly being his least favourite of his own stories (maybe of his era). Maybe one day he'll admit to the 'Victory' mistake as JNT did eventually to his choice of coat for Colin Baker. Let's face it, both were cases of a mish-mash of bad taste in colours!
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tony ingram
 
 
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paulhickling wrote:
Heccypoo wrote:How about the'sh*te Daleks?

I'll get me coat....
Don't bother getting your coat, you're quite right except you can leave out the word Dalek! If Tony's uptight about the fact that my use of the capital is wrong because I'm not including 'New Dalek' before it, I'm afraid he's just going to have to live with it. Calling these diabolical blimps Daleks is an insult to the "supreme power of the universe"! Lol. So for me, simply 'Paradigms' is the most polite thing I find myself calling them.
But it still doesn't make sense. It's not a name. You might just as well call them 'Concepts'. Or 'Walnuts'.
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Gosh you really like to stick on a detail don't you? No probs. I do sometimes. But I simply noticed wherever I go on the 'net the creatures are named using capitals, so I just assumed I was doing it right. Unless it seems, I'm not using the full title. Well, fan my brow! I can live with it.

But as others have more or less said, whether they are capitalised or not, or however they are meant to be named or called they are 100% sh*te. Are you one of those who loves them? I haven't a problem with that, but we can have endless debates about them. Bring it on! You know my view.

I am not a total hater of the Moff era, but I will say where I think he's failed, just as I will with RTD (or any of the Classic crowd) and this was a major dip.
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paulhickling wrote:Gosh you really like to stick on a detail don't you? No probs. I do sometimes. But I simply noticed wherever I go on the 'net the creatures are named using capitals, so I just assumed I was doing it right. Unless it seems, I'm not using the full title. Well, fan my brow! I can live with it.

But as others have more or less said, whether they are capitalised or not, or however they are meant to be named or called they are 100% sh*te. Are you one of those who loves them? I haven't a problem with that, but we can have endless debates about them. Bring it on! You know my view.

I am not a total hater of the Moff era, but I will say where I think he's failed, just as I will with RTD (or any of the Classic crowd) and this was a major dip.
I can't stand them. I'm just a bit obsessive about improper use of language. It really irritates me.
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tony ingram wrote:I'm just a bit obsessive about improper use of language. It really irritates me.
I'm with you on this one, actually. (But there's far worse misuse of language on this forum than calling the Teletubbie Daleks "Paradigms"...generally I just grin and bear it.)
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Ok, Teletubbies it is.

Anyway, it's interesting that when Moff had a publicity photo taken with a Dalek from 'Victory' it just happens to be an Ironside. Coincidence? Quite possibly. Or maybe on this one he's on our side. Trouble is, in one of those Brilliant Books he addresses the situation by saying "it's just a design". Doh! Just a guy who doesn't quite get what makes many of us love the things. Odd because fans share many tastes within Who, but he seems to be one of those (and there are plenty, I know some myself) for whom the Daleks aren't that big a deal.
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paulhickling wrote:Ok, Teletubbies it is.
Slight problem, that name is already taken.

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The new Dalek paradigm are referred to as NDPs amongst the builder's fraternity.

For what it's worth I did hear a couple of interesting things regarding the NDPs, for a start the production team didn't want them. A direct request was made from WW for new Dalek merchandising as they felt they had exhausted all their potential marketing. Each colour was chosen specifically because they appealed most to children, cost a fortune to make apparently and were so heavy they had trouble moving them off their marks and then stopping on their marks as well, which accounts for the somewhat static shots you see in their debut.

There's a definite discrepancy between plan and prop, the realised builds look too top heavy when compared to the original designs, which tied in with another story I was told that different teams worked on the tops and bottom section. Only one team worked in Imperial measurements whilst the other used metric! The issue wasn't discovered until the parts were put together and by that time is was too late to do anything about it! I later talked about this with a designer who works on the show and he said he'd heard the same but there were teams for each section! This accounts for the fudging in Asylum where the humps were taken in and the props were given more metallic paint jobs.

It will be interesting to see if they feature in the new series, there was an acknowledgement that they would be phased out gradually until they were gone.
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Imperial and metric! That explains a lot!!! :floorroll:

And reminds me of a scene in "Spinal Tap"...
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dano wrote:The new Dalek paradigm are referred to as NDPs amongst the builder's fraternity.

For what it's worth I did hear a couple of interesting things regarding the NDPs, for a start the production team didn't want them. A direct request was made from WW for new Dalek merchandising as they felt they had exhausted all their potential marketing. Each colour was chosen specifically because they appealed most to children, cost a fortune to make apparently and were so heavy they had trouble moving them off their marks and then stopping on their marks as well, which accounts for the somewhat static shots you see in their debut.

There's a definite discrepancy between plan and prop, the realised builds look too top heavy when compared to the original designs, which tied in with another story I was told that different teams worked on the tops and bottom section. Only one team worked in Imperial measurements whilst the other used metric! The issue wasn't discovered until the parts were put together and by that time is was too late to do anything about it! I later talked about this with a designer who works on the show and he said he'd heard the same but there were teams for each section! This accounts for the fudging in Asylum where the humps were taken in and the props were given more metallic paint jobs.

It will be interesting to see if they feature in the new series, there was an acknowledgement that they would be phased out gradually until they were gone.
At last! A post that actually tells us something about these 'things', and not just another gripe! A post that makes me think "what a surprise!". Nothing about the making of them shocks me at all, and lends credence to what I supposed about that photo of Moff with an Ironside instead of proudly posing with one of 'his' new beasts. He probably DOES secretly hate them as much as the rest of we fans.

And most of all the second part of that last sentence. Very reassuring.
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tony ingram wrote:
paulhickling wrote:Gosh you really like to stick on a detail don't you? No probs. I do sometimes. But I simply noticed wherever I go on the 'net the creatures are named using capitals, so I just assumed I was doing it right. Unless it seems, I'm not using the full title. Well, fan my brow! I can live with it.

But as others have more or less said, whether they are capitalised or not, or however they are meant to be named or called they are 100% sh*te. Are you one of those who loves them? I haven't a problem with that, but we can have endless debates about them. Bring it on! You know my view.

I am not a total hater of the Moff era, but I will say where I think he's failed, just as I will with RTD (or any of the Classic crowd) and this was a major dip.
I can't stand them. I'm just a bit obsessive about improper use of language. It really irritates me.
Tony I think your forum name needs some capitalization in there as at the moment it doesn't quite appear as correct use of language/grammar

Look seriously I do not care whether it is or isnt their name personally, and apologies to those who do/don't. As others have said, the issue was more about whether they were good or sh*t. I think they are sh*t. Simple.

I type this on a very small tablet so apologies for any spelling or grammatical errors or similar.
Posting name Bobspoons, real name Alex

PS: The avatar picture is "Alfred Chicken", for those of you who love the CBM-Amiga. Saw his pic in an avatar collection, wndered why he was there and decided somebody should keep the legend of Alfred alive.
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paulhickling wrote:
If it's any consolation to the 'Moff era is best' crowd let me say I hated RTD's red Supreme Dalek too. Those lumps look stupid and mar the aforementioned iconic design. Without them a red Dalek finally in the series would have been great, and at least it was still METALLIC red. But they had to spoil it.
Well.. let's hope this fella turns up soon.
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There was no reason why they couldn't just have the 2005 + Daleks in different metallic colours. There are some great examples by various individuals across the 'net all far better than the blimps in 'Victory'. The one above is fine, though it needs a sheen to look metallic. And it also looks better than the Supreme in Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Surely different colours are enough to boost sales of toys if they've been in the series.

I also don't mind the occasional one-off like the Special Weapons Dalek and the various Emperors. Infact if they'd made better use of the different Daleks of the past in Asylum like we were promised they could have had plenty of new toys there I'd have thought. Still think they missed a trick by not letting the SWD let a blast off from it's gun. At least one past Dalek would have featured well then, dramatically, instead of hanging around in the background.
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Did you look at the image Paul. Does this meet with your approval. Thoughts?.
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They should have a look at "Second Empire" for inspiration.

Random example...

Image
dano

paulhickling wrote: If it's any consolation to the 'Moff era is best' crowd let me say I hated RTD's red Supreme Dalek too. Those lumps look stupid and mar the aforementioned iconic design. Without them a red Dalek finally in the series would have been great, and at least it was still METALLIC red. But they had to spoil it.
The reason for all those fins and sticky on bits was that the supreme was supposed to integrate into a cradle. the fins were actually supposed to be like clamps that locked it in.
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Mr. Ron wrote:Did you look at the image Paul. Does this meet with your approval. Thoughts?.
It does indeed Mr Ron. It's a bona fide Dalek without anything to mar the wonderful design we all know and love, basically a red example of the 2005 + versions. My opinion was in my post here actually: "The one above is fine, though it needs a sheen to look metallic. And it also looks better than the Supreme in Stolen Earth/Journey's End."

So yeah, a touch more metallic sheen and it's perfect, just as the silver ones in that online remake of Power of the Daleks are. The only improvement to make to Dalek Sec (in original form not the abomination in Evolution!) is again, a bit more shine. Without the neck rings picked out in silver it looks a little dull. Note the regular bronze ones have a range of shades across them to stop them looking non-metallic or dull. When we see them dirty and roughed up they don't look quite as impressive so they must 'shine' them up occasionally to make them look good, as I'm sure they do with the fibreglass Cybermen.

See, the ones in the comic strip above also look fine, because despite a few small details they are the genuine article. And the Emperor is an Emperor and they usually only come along one at a time. I can cope with that!
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dano wrote:
paulhickling wrote: If it's any consolation to the 'Moff era is best' crowd let me say I hated RTD's red Supreme Dalek too. Those lumps look stupid and mar the aforementioned iconic design. Without them a red Dalek finally in the series would have been great, and at least it was still METALLIC red. But they had to spoil it.
The reason for all those fins and sticky on bits was that the supreme was supposed to integrate into a cradle. the fins were actually supposed to be like clamps that locked it in.
Now that would have been visually interesting, but once they realised they couldn't do it because of lack of time or budget they should have taken the lumps off, as we're left with something that in the final episodes has no purpose. And besides, if it was to attach to a cradle, let the cradle latch onto something more discreet and leave the original design alone! A red Dalek would have been great finally in the series, and they had to mess it up.

Apart from that, and just my own feeling mind, I prefer the Supreme to be black, like the first movie/Planet/The Chase/Invasion of Earth, and not gold or red! Other 'lieutenant' types fine, again just like the first movie. In fact I like the idea of the second film with a range of different colours for the 'top brass'. I love seeing different colours. Hate seeing abominations like what we got in Victory. It comes as no surprise that it was a money making decision with not the slightest consideration for the feelings of the viewer.

Have to laugh at Character Options though doing the first movie blue Daleks and passing them off as Chase Daleks. We all know they were merely hand me down props! CO also having some bare faced cheek there methinks.

What was annoying at the time of Victory was Gatiss and the like saying they were like the movie Daleks. Rubbish! The ones we'd had since 2005 were already more like the Cushing variety. In other words virtually the same design but chunkier. Don't have problem with that. Wouldn't have minded either if when the Exxilon, Spiridon etc versions were mentioned in Asylum, we'd had 2005 + designs with appropriate paint jobs. A step to far to please the fans no doubt, especially since the whole "Every Dalek ever" thing was probably just a smoke screen to hide the companion reveal.
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