Rate Victory of the Daleks

Out of ten...

10
10
5%
9
22
10%
8
25
11%
7
31
14%
6
28
13%
5
28
13%
4
20
9%
3
26
12%
2
13
6%
1
19
9%
 
Total votes: 222
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LizR wrote:Has anyone complained about the Doctor being totally unafraid of them? Weeping Angels scare the willies out of him, but Daleks . . . nah.

It must be their new fluffy Dalek look that stops the fear!
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LizR wrote:Has anyone complained about the Doctor being totally unafraid of them? Weeping Angels scare the willies out of him, but Daleks . . . nah.
Did you think so ?

I got the distinct impression that he was rather more afraid of the new Daleks - hence the dash back to the TARDIS
he certainly didnt seem to be in any hurry to step back outside the ship.
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markhuk wrote:
LizR wrote:Has anyone complained about the Doctor being totally unafraid of them? Weeping Angels scare the willies out of him, but Daleks . . . nah.
Did you think so ?

I got the distinct impression that he was rather more afraid of the new Daleks - hence the dash back to the TARDIS
he certainly didnt seem to be in any hurry to step back outside the ship.
The point was that he chatted away to them, and generally didn't show any signs of fear as Troughton did when faced with just one Dalek. Well, he didn't sell it for me, at least, not at all.
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All the menace has been cut out of the daleks now that they are teletubbies.Its just to appeal to a younger audience, so they are not as dark and scary for younger viewers, who go on to plaugu Mum and Dad for the toys.ianj
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ianj wrote:All the menace has been cut out of the daleks now that they are teletubbies.Its just to appeal to a younger audience, so they are not as dark and scary for younger viewers, who go on to plaugu Mum and Dad for the toys.ianj
Obviously I can only reapeat what my own kids said but the verdict from them was that the new Daleks looked a lot toughter than the Khaki Daleks

which is not to say they didnt like the RTD versions - merely that they thought the new ones looked as good if not better.

Personally I dont like the neck grill, dont mind the middle, Love the new arm and gun and dont mind the skirt
I prefer the eye and am happy to wait and see what the trap door on the back is for.
So do I like the new design ? yes I think overall it succeeds - I never liked the rivetted look of the previous one - made it look too man made although I did like the basic shape and size of it - I think it was about time something was done to give the Daleks a bit of life and I think in years to come this story will be looked back on as an important turning point.
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Dobey Kweeg wrote:
markhuk wrote: i was disputing his excuse - not yours - for disliking the episode which was tha the daleks had oppertuities to kill the Doctor but never took them - which as i have pointed out they have had numerous chances to do so and is therefore a rather weak arguament.

Personally I have less of a problem with people just saying it wasnt for me than I do with people who make up silly reasons.
As someone who thinks (after the space sptifires) the Doctor not being shot by the Daleks (or rarther the way he presents himself conintually as an open target (begging for it at one point!) weakened this episode, I think i have to defend why I think this is perfectly valid rather than silly reason to not rate the episode!

Firstly, just because it has happened in the past doesnt mean it wasnt at least a bit silly when it happened then - Every time the Doctor is able to have a long conversation with a fully armed dalek that could zap him, and has every reason to, it weakens them as a threat, whether that be Hartnell or Smith.

Secondly I'd argue that saying that because something happened in the show in the past, an argument cant be valid against its inclusion in the present is a more silly argument - that way lies spoons! :) A bad idea is a bad idea, whether theres a precendent for it r not. This is one area where i think fan writers can fall into a trap, with this justification sitting on their shoulder subconsciously or not.
The Doctor has stated that even the Daleks wouldn't tamper with history. They couldn't be sure that zapping the Doc in the prresent wouldn't alter their own timeline, lets they should encounter his future in their past. So they don't
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But they tamper with history all the time. In spite of all the run-ins between Daleks and future humans we've seen they keep popping up in 20th/21st century Earth and mucking about.

It's getting to the point that I want the Doctor to just say "screw this," kidnap baby Davros and drop him off in a humanoid society low-tech enough that he can never get into genetic engineering in the first place. If he really respected the sanctity of the timestream he couldn't do that, but since it's clear he doesn't, might as well go whole-hog in his meddling.
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My problem isn't really the new Dalek design, it's that the Doctor doesn't treat the Daleks with appropriate respect. The last time he did so was in "Dalek" when he was obviously terrified of being locked in a room with one.

He calls the Weeping Angels "The deadliest, most evil, most malevolent life-form evolution has ever produced" (perhaps using the word "evolution" to distinguish them from the Daleks, who were created?) But I didn't get the feeling that he felt that way about the Daleks when he stood there in front of five of them. He just doesn't act like he's terrified of being exterminated at any moment, as Troughton did in "Evil".
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Absolute dross. I had very high hopes when I heard Stephen Moffet was going to take the helm (Blink, Girl in the Fireplace) but the first three stories have been mind numbingly tedious. I have never quite understood why the inclusion of the Daleks seems to guarantee a stories success - well that theory is instantly quashed by this rubbish.
I also find Matt Smith's Doctor utterly devoid of any personality at all. Does not bode well....
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VICTORY OF THE DALEKS aired several hours ago here in Australia and unfortunately it is an absolute travesty! In my opinion it is so awful I'm not even giving it a rating.

The basic premise of a story involving Winston Churchill and the Daleks is not objectionable but Mark Gatiss' handling of this idea is very poor and disappointing. He is a better writer than this - and Steven Moffat should never have signed off on this script. What we have here are two obviously talented creative writers and hardcore fans of DOCTOR WHO who for some extraordinary unknown reason appear to have shared the same brain aneurysm.

VICTORY is rubbish as a story ... but what is worse is that it introduces a new design of Daleks that could not be more pathetic! Did someone stage a How To Design The Worse Dalek Competition? The new generation of Daleks are terrible! They are terribly designed, they are horribly coloured, they are poorly made - and they're too big! They look like amateur-made Daleks constructed by not very talented kids or teenagers - with very little pocket money! These new Daleks do not look fearsome at all, they look like giant cheaply made 'fun' multi-coloured toys. They look as bad as the crap Daleks in the late 1980's stage play, DOCTOR WHO: THE ULTIMATE ADVENTURE. It does seem that the redesign of the Daleks on the show is a blatant attempt by the BBC to promote a new line of Dalek toys that manufacturers can mass produce on the cheap - without the more expensive and detailed design/proportions of the REAL Daleks!

Steven Moffat as executive producer has to take full moral responsibility for allowing this to happen. I cannot believe that any hardcore fan of the show could genuinely prefer the new-look multi-coloured Daleks over the bronze Daleks and the vastly superior craftsmanship of their construction. I don't care what Mr. Moffat said on camera in DOCTOR WHO CONFIDENTIAL about his preference of the new design.

THIS IS SUCH A TRAVESTY! I hope that fans get really, really mad about this and flood the BBC with complaints! I hope that Terry Nation's agent and estate go ballistic over this! These new Daleks are what you'd expect to see in a cheap send-up of DOCTOR WHO! Everyone on this forum should be going nuclear over this!

Had I been asked to conceive a Dalek story involving Winston Churchill I would have had a Dalek saucer from the future crash into the English Channel and its survivors would be rescued by the Royal Navy. Churchill would keep the Daleks secret believing they are robots from another planet he can use to defeat Hitler. The Doctor's warnings are ignored by a ruthless PM until the London factory where the Daleks are reproducing is seized by an elite group of Nazi paratroopers. The Daleks contacted Hitler and have changed sides. The machine creatures know from their database that Nazi Germany will give them a better deal. The Doctor persuades the Nazis that the Daleks should be destroyed and the machine creatures start exterminating every human in sight. The battle could rage out in the streets of London at night as bombs fall all around the combatants. The Daleks in London are defeated but their saucer lifts up out of the Channel and the Doctor uses a Spitfire to shoot its Achilles' heel, whatever that might be, and it blows apart. ****** Maybe the above story idea might not be to everyone's liking, but I think it is much better than what we ended up with as VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

UNFORTUNATELY, VICTORY OF THE DALEKS turned out the way that it did and we cannot roll back time and delete it from ever being made. The only way I see of undoing the damage is to explain away the new multi-coloured 'toy' Daleks as a manifestation of an altered reality. The same altered reality that has Amy not knowing anything about the Daleks before. Conceivably, the new Daleks are a childish recreation introduced into the Doctor's timeline by a juvenile but dangerous alien life-form that is making cracks appear in his dimension.

Matt Smith and Karen are fine in their roles and the new look TARDIS, both inside and outside, as well as the new theme presentation are tolerable. However, I don't like some of the perfomances from other players whose over-acting seems more in line with a very young-age childrens' show.

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This is a postscript to my condemnation of VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

I hope someone interviews (original Dalek designer) Ray Cusick about his opinion of the new-look Daleks because I'm certain he hates them. And if Terry Nation were still alive I have no doubt he would withdraw permission for the Daleks to continue to appear on DOCTOR WHO. I do hope someone contacts the agent representing the late Terry Nation's estate and asks that he/they do something to rectify this!

While the Daleks were multi-coloured in the film, DR. WHO AND THE DALEKS, they were nonetheless only a slight modification to Ray Cusick's TV design and they were beautifully made by SHAWCRAFT MODELS who were responsible for the television props. Admittedly, there was a botch-up of the alignment of the skirt balls on the rear panel of these movie props but it wasn't too noticeable.

In the past, some of the 1970's and 1980's Dalek stories have been spoiled by poorly made BBC prop Daleks. However, that was mostly due to budget restraints. DESTINY OF THE DALEKS is not a very good story and has a lousy lot of Daleks in very poor condition BUT it is a masterpiece compared to VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

I point out that the set of bronze Daleks with gold skirt balls that were made for the new version of DOCTOR WHO are very faithfull overall to the original design and are wonderfully constructed at great expense! WHY REPLACE THEM?! Why replace the expensive and highly detailed bronze Daleks with cheaply and poorly-made, childish-looking, multi-coloured props that look like toys?

I cannot believe any posters on any WHO blog can prefer the new set of multi-coloured Daleks to the bronze ones and the earlier props in the classic series.

TIME OF THE ANGELS is on here in Oz next Sunday and I understand it is very good. That may be so but it still doesn't excuse or forgive VICTORY OF THE DALEKS. If Steven Moffat is unable to produce a Dalek story properly then he just shouldn't make them. IF he genuinely wanted to redesign the Daleks then he should have used the future Dalek design that Ray Cusick devised years ago; though the original design cannot be bettered.

I hope a campaign is waged to pressure the BBC into retaining the bronze Daleks and that the multi-coloured imposters never rear their tops again. IF a new line of multi-coloured Dalek toys are launched I do hope that they are boycotted out of existance!

For those of you who like the new-look Daleks you are entitled to your opinion but I'm sure you're in the overwhelming minority.

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Sydney wrote:VICTORY OF THE DALEKS aired several hours ago here in Australia and unfortunately it is an absolute travesty! In my opinion it is so awful I'm not even giving it a rating.

Thats your opinion.


The basic premise of a story involving Winston Churchill and the Daleks is not objectionable but Mark Gatiss' handling of this idea is very poor and disappointing. He is a better writer than this - and Steven Moffat should never have signed off on this script. What we have here are two obviously talented creative writers and hardcore fans of DOCTOR WHO who for some extraordinary unknown reason appear to have shared the same brain aneurysm.

Once again opinion - but expressed in a particularly rude and objectionable way

VICTORY is rubbish as a story ... but what is worse is that it introduces a new design of Daleks that could not be more pathetic! Did someone stage a How To Design The Worse Dalek Competition? The new generation of Daleks are terrible! They are terribly designed, they are horribly coloured, they are poorly made - and they're too big! They look like amateur-made Daleks constructed by not very talented kids or teenagers - with very little pocket money! These new Daleks do not look fearsome at all, they look like giant cheaply made 'fun' multi-coloured toys. They look as bad as the crap Daleks in the late 1980's stage play, DOCTOR WHO: THE ULTIMATE ADVENTURE. It does seem that the redesign of the Daleks on the show is a blatant attempt by the BBC to promote a new line of Dalek toys that manufacturers can mass produce on the cheap - without the more expensive and detailed design/proportions of the REAL Daleks!

Once again opinion - once again rudely expressed

Steven Moffat as executive producer has to take full moral responsibility for allowing this to happen. I cannot believe that any hardcore fan of the show could genuinely prefer the new-look multi-coloured Daleks over the bronze Daleks and the vastly superior craftsmanship of their construction. I don't care what Mr. Moffat said on camera in DOCTOR WHO CONFIDENTIAL about his preference of the new design.

Then you believe incorrectly, I prefer this version although in all honesty I had no massive problem with the previous version

THIS IS SUCH A TRAVESTY! I hope that fans get really, really mad about this and flood the BBC with complaints! I hope that Terry Nation's agent and estate go ballistic over this! These new Daleks are what you'd expect to see in a cheap send-up of DOCTOR WHO! Everyone on this forum should be going nuclear over this!

going a bit over the top here chap - we get that you dont like it but really is this necessary ?
personally I thought it was a highly enjoyable romp with an excellent update of an old enemy


Had I been asked to conceive a Dalek story involving Winston Churchill I would have had a Dalek saucer from the future crash into the English Channel and its survivors would be rescued by the Royal Navy. Churchill would keep the Daleks secret believing they are robots from another planet he can use to defeat Hitler. The Doctor's warnings are ignored by a ruthless PM until the London factory where the Daleks are reproducing is seized by an elite group of Nazi paratroopers. The Daleks contacted Hitler and have changed sides. The machine creatures know from their database that Nazi Germany will give them a better deal. The Doctor persuades the Nazis that the Daleks should be destroyed and the machine creatures start exterminating every human in sight. The battle could rage out in the streets of London at night as bombs fall all around the combatants. The Daleks in London are defeated but their saucer lifts up out of the Channel and the Doctor uses a Spitfire to shoot its Achilles' heel, whatever that might be, and it blows apart. ****** Maybe the above story idea might not be to everyone's liking, but I think it is much better than what we ended up with as VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

But youre not a writer, and after reading your plot I can see why, whereas Steven Moffatt and Mark Gatiss are and after seeing the episode and the rather impressive AI it got I can understand why they got the job

UNFORTUNATELY, VICTORY OF THE DALEKS turned out the way that it did and we cannot roll back time and delete it from ever being made. The only way I see of undoing the damage is to explain away the new multi-coloured 'toy' Daleks as a manifestation of an altered reality. The same altered reality that has Amy not knowing anything about the Daleks before. Conceivably, the new Daleks are a childish recreation introduced into the Doctor's timeline by a juvenile but dangerous alien life-form that is making cracks appear in his dimension.

Dont think this is likely

Matt Smith and Karen are fine in their roles and the new look TARDIS, both inside and outside, as well as the new theme presentation are tolerable. However, I don't like some of the perfomances from other players whose over-acting seems more in line with a very young-age childrens' show.

Well the General Public seem to be enjoying it and the critics are also on the whole very favourable so it looks like youre in the minority here

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Sydney wrote:This is a postscript to my condemnation of VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

I hope someone interviews (original Dalek designer) Ray Cusick about his opinion of the new-look Daleks because I'm certain he hates them. And if Terry Nation were still alive I have no doubt he would withdraw permission for the Daleks to continue to appear on DOCTOR WHO. I do hope someone contacts the agent representing the late Terry Nation's estate and asks that he/they do something to rectify this!

That would be interesting because I know RC disliked the bronze daleks

While the Daleks were multi-coloured in the film, DR. WHO AND THE DALEKS, they were nonetheless only a slight modification to Ray Cusick's TV design and they were beautifully made by SHAWCRAFT MODELS who were responsible for the television props. Admittedly, there was a botch-up of the alignment of the skirt balls on the rear panel of these movie props but it wasn't too noticeable.

Cant disagree with that

In the past, some of the 1970's and 1980's Dalek stories have been spoiled by poorly made BBC prop Daleks. However, that was mostly due to budget restraints. DESTINY OF THE DALEKS is not a very good story and has a lousy lot of Daleks in very poor condition BUT it is a masterpiece compared to VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

I strongly disagree with this comment - the Daleks in Victory were a masterstroke - a brilliant updating that made a clean break from the Time War and gave the Daleks a much stronger physical appearance - though I fully accept and expect that there are others that disagree with this

I point out that the set of bronze Daleks with gold skirt balls that were made for the new version of DOCTOR WHO are very faithfull overall to the original design and are wonderfully constructed at great expense! WHY REPLACE THEM?! Why replace the expensive and highly detailed bronze Daleks with cheaply and poorly-made, childish-looking, multi-coloured props that look like toys?

Why not ? The Daleks have changed appearance umpteen times already and im sure they will again.
Personally I think its very insulting to describe them as poorly made - you may not like the design but that doesnt make them poorly made.
As to your assertation of not being detailed - I think thats a poor comment - you might not like the detailing but its definately there.
Raymond Cusick alledged to dislike the bronze Daleks because they were covered in screws and rivets and he said it made them look too man made - personally I rather like that but I can see where he is coming from and lets face it he designed them in the first place - if he says its wrong then it is - going by your earlier statement


I cannot believe any posters on any WHO blog can prefer the new set of multi-coloured Daleks to the bronze ones and the earlier props in the classic series.

Already covered this - youre wrong

TIME OF THE ANGELS is on here in Oz next Sunday and I understand it is very good. That may be so but it still doesn't excuse or forgive VICTORY OF THE DALEKS. If Steven Moffat is unable to produce a Dalek story properly then he just shouldn't make them. IF he genuinely wanted to redesign the Daleks then he should have used the future Dalek design that Ray Cusick devised years ago; though the original design cannot be bettered.

I like the original design too but am perfectly happy with the new one

I hope a campaign is waged to pressure the BBC into retaining the bronze Daleks and that the multi-coloured imposters never rear their tops again. IF a new line of multi-coloured Dalek toys are launched I do hope that they are boycotted out of existance!

Lets face it this is never going to happen

For those of you who like the new-look Daleks you are entitled to your opinion but I'm sure you're in the overwhelming minority.

Wrong again - according to all the polls fandom is pretty evenly split on this and the GP seem to have pretty much accepted them

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The new Volvo-Daleks are crap.ianj
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Ray Cusick, a lovely guy, must be disgusted with how they've pratted about with such a famous icon. ianj
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ianj wrote:Ray Cusick, a lovely guy, must be disgusted with how they've pratted about with such a famous icon. ianj
It would be interesting to hear from him wouldnt it ?
I have heard that he really disliked the RTD version so it would be nice to know hi feelings on this version
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ianj wrote:The new Volvo-Daleks are crap.ianj
Hi, ianj,

Yes, the new Daleks are certainly crap and more and more people are now coming out and saying this. I strongly urge every one who agrees that this is indeed the case to e-mail the BBC, perhaps by their website, and lodge a polite but strongly-worded complaint.

Ray Cusick may not have particularly liked the bronze Daleks introduced in 2005 but that doesn't mean he would approve of the new multi-coloured Daleks. His original designs are a work of genius - the new design is a travesty.

Please, everyone, if you are as outraged as I am as to what has been done to the Daleks' design, etc., please contact as many fans as you know and recommend, if they agree, that they file a protest to the BBC as well.

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I hope Ray Cusick shares my views, that the bronze RTD Daleks didn't look "alien tech" enough (they looked bolted together in someone's shed), while the new ones have done quite well in the alien tech department, but have spoiled it by being differently shaped. The new look on the classic shape would probably work better than either.
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LizR wrote:I hope Ray Cusick shares my views, that the bronze RTD Daleks didn't look "alien tech" enough (they looked bolted together in someone's shed), while the new ones have done quite well in the alien tech department, but have spoiled it by being differently shaped. The new look on the classic shape would probably work better than either.
This is probably true. If the new look had been done as the classic shape they would look much sleeker and alien tech. However the colour scheme would also need to be toned considerably before anyone could take them seriously as a threat.
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L. Scarman wrote:However the colour scheme would also need to be toned considerably before anyone could take them seriously as a threat.
Agreed.

PS I think I know where they got the idea...
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