Watching Doctor Who from the beginning: Season 31!

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The Ginger Cat
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paulhickling wrote:You should have seen his treatment of a kid at the last big convention! The guy obviously had aspergers or something, and was physically shaking as he made a less than subtle critique of what Moff does. Moff was anything but gracious in reply. He basically told the lad he needed a personality transplant! It was a VERY uncomfortable moment that I was convinced would end up in the papers. And as a mate of mine asked about the scheduling with years off etc, he snapped at him too.
Some of it was reported back on Twitter and various other fora/websites at the time. More on that here.
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The Ginger Cat wrote:
paulhickling wrote:You should have seen his treatment of a kid at the last big convention! The guy obviously had aspergers or something, and was physically shaking as he made a less than subtle critique of what Moff does. Moff was anything but gracious in reply. He basically told the lad he needed a personality transplant! It was a VERY uncomfortable moment that I was convinced would end up in the papers. And as a mate of mine asked about the scheduling with years off etc, he snapped at him too.
Some of it was reported back on Twitter and various other fora/websites at the time. More on that here.
Would that be the one where Moff thought the kid had insulted Matt Smith?
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The Nimon wrote:
The Ginger Cat wrote:
paulhickling wrote:You should have seen his treatment of a kid at the last big convention! The guy obviously had aspergers or something, and was physically shaking as he made a less than subtle critique of what Moff does. Moff was anything but gracious in reply. He basically told the lad he needed a personality transplant! It was a VERY uncomfortable moment that I was convinced would end up in the papers. And as a mate of mine asked about the scheduling with years off etc, he snapped at him too.
Some of it was reported back on Twitter and various other fora/websites at the time. More on that here.
Would that be the one where Moff thought the kid had insulted Matt Smith?
Yeah, I think that was it. All I know was CultBox tweeting about it at the time and it causing a bit of a fuss on the fora.
CultBox wrote:
Overriding memory of @DWFestival today: Steven Moffat being unforgivably cruel to an autistic guy who asked a question in Q&A."
If Moffat genuinely couldn't hear the poor guy, I sincerely hope he's tracked him down and apologised since. It was horrible to watch."
"Even after he'd explained that he was autistic when a comment about liking Series 8 because it felt like the RTD era was misinterpreted.."
"...as criticising Matt Smith, he continued to lay into the fan in front of a packed audience of people. Genuinely disgusted to be honest."
It was evident (to anyone with any sense or compassion) almost as soon as he took the mike, literally shaking, that he was on the spectrum."
https://twitter.com/CultBoxTV/status/665950218979057666
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Whereas Moffat is on the Commodore 64 :alien:
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Victory of the Daleks - what victory? why daleks? why then? cartoon history = unrecognizable historical 'figures' and feeds not just a distorted 'great man' view of history but an even worse and less plausible 'great man of history is all a bit panto'.

I could easily anticipate an appearance of Joe Stalin where he talks like a 'comedy' east european and is an avuncular bumbler - instead of the murderous psychopath he actually was.

With a few tweaks the android and the implausible technology wibble to achieve what they wanted - Eagle / 2000AD imagery of Spitfires in space - could have been made acceptable. The fact no effort went into that part of the story is telling.

Angels story - bringing them back is very much the 'Aliens' to Blink's 'Alien' and like the rubber monster franchise once you do that you change everything forever. It is exactly what was said years ago about the Sontaran (singular) in the Time Warrior becoming an entire race. A group poses no greater threat than the single alien first encountered and so not only cheapens them and changes the mystery and wonder of the experience into a toy soldier wargame, it also devalues the threat to the point where by the expected third and later appearances they are more like the Wolfman in Abbott and Costello than the central creature of a horror story. Always unwise to do it.

Venice - I found it OK, with a terribly disappointing ending. Half way through first watching it I was thinking, is that really it? That's all? And I had the sinking sensation we were in LOST territory with the arcs and foreshadowing - no payoff to come.
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Well, right from its very 2nd production block, Doctor Who has always brought back popular monsters.
It brought back the daleks, it brought back the yeti, it brought back the cybermen.
We might argue that this cheapens said monsters, but it seems to have been a total bedrock part of what has made the show enduringly popular with the general viewing for decades.

For me, bringing back the "person still talking after they die" thing was much worse than bringing back the weeping angels (and bring back River Song) - it cheapened a genuinely original piece of sci fi, something that was really hard-hitting dramatically, making it just a kinda silly doctor-who-ey "people talk after they die all the time, monsters just nick their voices, it's what they do!" trope.

If you bring something back, give it a new twist AND a good story, which I think they managed in this case with the angels, then that's great.
Bringing the daleks back in a STUPID story and making them look like plastic coloured toys was AWFUL though :x
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feline1 wrote:Well, right from its very 2nd production block, Doctor Who has always brought back popular monsters.
It brought back the daleks, it brought back the yeti, it brought back the cybermen.
We might argue that this cheapens said monsters, but it seems to have been a total bedrock part of what has made the show enduringly popular with the general viewing for decades.

For me, bringing back the "person still talking after they die" thing was much worse than bringing back the weeping angels (and bring back River Song) - it cheapened a genuinely original piece of sci fi, something that was really hard-hitting dramatically, making it just a kinda silly doctor-who-ey "people talk after they die all the time, monsters just nick their voices, it's what they do!" trope.

If you bring something back, give it a new twist AND a good story, which I think they managed in this case with the angels, then that's great.
Bringing the daleks back in a STUPID story and making them look like plastic coloured toys was AWFUL though :x
Agree 100% re people talking after they're dead, that was another jaw dropping moment for me (not in a good way).

Re monsters returning, Daleks and Cybermen began as 'races' - pluarlity of a creature. Sontarans began as a reference in a novelisation then a single one - Lynx - and it let the viewer speculate, as well as emphasizing the insane difference in scale - a million hatchlings on parade per batch versus a pissant little castle in a backwater of a backwater planet. It was in the same oeuvre as the 'unnecessary' backstory part of the Ribos Operation - made the cosmos in which it is set enormous, stupendous and interesting.
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Flying Tiger Comics wrote:Victory of the Daleks - what victory? why daleks? why then? cartoon history = unrecognizable historical 'figures' and feeds not just a distorted 'great man' view of history but an even worse and less plausible 'great man of history is all a bit panto'.

I could easily anticipate an appearance of Joe Stalin where he talks like a 'comedy' east european and is an avuncular bumbler - instead of the murderous psychopath he actually was.


Angels story - bringing them back is very much the 'Aliens' to Blink's 'Alien' and like the rubber monster franchise once you do that you change everything forever. It is exactly what was said years ago about the Sontaran (singular) in the Time Warrior becoming an entire race. A group poses no greater threat than the single alien first encountered and so not only cheapens them and changes the mystery and wonder of the experience into a toy soldier wargame, it also devalues the threat to the point where by the expected third and later appearances they are more like the Wolfman in Abbott and Costello than the central creature of a horror story. Always unwise to do it.

.
I agree with the above generally. I really wish WHO would stay away from 20th century historical figures for some of the reasons you state. And yes if Stalin ever did show up, he would be good old Uncle Joe from MISSION TO MOSCOW with the Doctor...or my likely his companion...complimenting him on his five year plan.

I still cringe during the scene where Pertwee goes on in MIND OF EVIL about his getting on famously with Mao Ze Tung. Somehow the Hartnells had the trick. See Nero in THE ROMANS. It has never been done correctly since then.

I disagree about the Sontarans returning. If they are handled well and with imagination and attention then alien races should return. If they are handled badly then they should not. The Angels however WERE a one trick pony and should not have come back. The Sontarans can benefit by an exploration and expansion of their story as BIG FINISH has shown and STAR TREK has done well repeatedly(though not in the case of the Borg) The Angels are basically GOTCHA monsters who exist to do jump scares and nothing else. The comparison is not so much the Wolf Man as Michael Myers or better still as you noted the Aliens from ALIEN. After the second film, those characters were on a treadmill. There is JAWS and then there is JAWS 2 and......then there is JAWS 3D.........
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The Ginger Cat wrote:
The Nimon wrote:
The Ginger Cat wrote:
paulhickling wrote:You should have seen his treatment of a kid at the last big convention! The guy obviously had aspergers or something, and was physically shaking as he made a less than subtle critique of what Moff does. Moff was anything but gracious in reply. He basically told the lad he needed a personality transplant! It was a VERY uncomfortable moment that I was convinced would end up in the papers. And as a mate of mine asked about the scheduling with years off etc, he snapped at him too.
Some of it was reported back on Twitter and various other fora/websites at the time. More on that here.
Would that be the one where Moff thought the kid had insulted Matt Smith?
Yeah, I think that was it. All I know was CultBox tweeting about it at the time and it causing a bit of a fuss on the fora.
CultBox wrote:
Overriding memory of @DWFestival today: Steven Moffat being unforgivably cruel to an autistic guy who asked a question in Q&A."
If Moffat genuinely couldn't hear the poor guy, I sincerely hope he's tracked him down and apologised since. It was horrible to watch."
"Even after he'd explained that he was autistic when a comment about liking Series 8 because it felt like the RTD era was misinterpreted.."
"...as criticising Matt Smith, he continued to lay into the fan in front of a packed audience of people. Genuinely disgusted to be honest."
It was evident (to anyone with any sense or compassion) almost as soon as he took the mike, literally shaking, that he was on the spectrum."
https://twitter.com/CultBoxTV/status/665950218979057666
Yeah thought so, I did share a transcript of what he said on here somewhere last year, can't remember what thread. Moffat said something along the lines of 'You just insulted my Friend, I don't like you.' As ever it was just report by certain sides of Fandom as Moffat being a villain. Posts online by people whom were there say it was a storm in a tea cup
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I was there and although the lad was behind me he was on the big screen too, which is why I was surprised at Moff not taking his obvious condition into consideration. The kid was visibly shaking, we could all see this, and it has to be said he was criticising the Moff era with some effect about it not being as good as the RTD one. I just thought Moff should have been more tactful. I was also surprised someone didn't intervene and or whisper in Moff's shell-like somehow.

I don't expect him to take rubbish of someone without reacting like any human being would. It was his total misunderstanding of the situation that was shocking. For instance I don't blame him for snapping at my mate's question about scheduling, as Mark was being a little sly to try and get Moff to 'spill the beans' about who's decision it was to give us less Who etc. But again some professionals handle these things more well.... professionally.

Interestingly, when RTD did a Q&A session at the Children in Need concert way back in 2006, he cleverly avoided fan grilling by getting a crew to vox pop a load of questions from general public types, i.e kids, no obvious fans, (this was the first Who event of the new era not populated totally by fans like ourselves or DWAS types etc.) during the break. When we all sat down again these were played on the big screen and RTD and co answered the recordings. But I still think RTD would handled the other thing better.

There was a small example of this when he did a Q&A session at the NFT after his book was published, where I met him briefly and he joked about me and my mates being "on the lash". Back at the CiN event I saw pre-showrunner Moff as he passed me in the bar and I asked him what he thought of the show so far (yeah, almost exactly like Eric Morecambe), and he just mumbled "great". To be fair he did sign our postcards as we also spotted him on the same row later. Also to be fair he has said in his DWM column that he KNOWS he's not the life and sole.

I still like Moff. He's a great, gifted writer. Just because I might not like his decisions doesn't stop his good side being just that. But there is definitely a gut feeling of a difference in personality between the two showrunners, and Moff is the obvious grumpy one. I mean, none of us know what RTD was like to work with.. We as fans can only go on surface impressions and their writing, and some character traits are bound to seep into their work.
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paulhickling wrote:I was there and although the lad was behind me he was on the big screen too, which is why I was surprised at Moff not taking his obvious condition into consideration. The kid was visibly shaking, we could all see this, and it has to be said he was criticising the Moff era with some effect about it not being as good as the RTD one. I just thought Moff should have been more tactful. I was also surprised someone didn't intervene and or whisper in Moff's shell-like somehow.

I don't expect him to take rubbish of someone without reacting like any human being would. It was his total misunderstanding of the situation that was shocking. For instance I don't blame him for snapping at my mate's question about scheduling, as Mark was being a little sly to try and get Moff to 'spill the beans' about who's decision it was to give us less Who etc. But again some professionals handle these things more well.... professionally.

Interestingly, when RTD did a Q&A session at the Children in Need concert way back in 2006, he cleverly avoided fan grilling by getting a crew to vox pop a load of questions from general public types, i.e kids, no obvious fans, (this was the first Who event of the new era not populated totally by fans like ourselves or DWAS types etc.) during the break. When we all sat down again these were played on the big screen and RTD and co answered the recordings. But I still think RTD would handled the other thing better.

There was a small example of this when he did a Q&A session at the NFT after his book was published, where I met him briefly and he joked about me and my mates being "on the lash". Back at the CiN event I saw pre-showrunner Moff as he passed me in the bar and I asked him what he thought of the show so far (yeah, almost exactly like Eric Morecambe), and he just mumbled "great". To be fair he did sign our postcards as we also spotted him on the same row later. Also to be fair he has said in his DWM column that he KNOWS he's not the life and sole.

I still like Moff. He's a great, gifted writer. Just because I might not like his decisions doesn't stop his good side being just that. But there is definitely a gut feeling of a difference in personality between the two showrunners, and Moff is the obvious grumpy one. I mean, none of us know what RTD was like to work with.. We as fans can only go on surface impressions and their writing, and some character traits are bound to seep into their work.
Could Moffat see the screen though? He does come across as being more uncomfortable than RTD was when doping Q and As but then we're all different, I know I'd have a hard time doing it. He doesn't come across as the showman RTD did but, in my opinion, does do good work behind the camera. I think you're right and the questions should have been vetted before hand, these things do happen at events if they're not. It reminds me of a Dimensions where a lad with learning difficulties asked Nick Courtney a question, 'Why did the second Doctor not recognise you when he met you as the Brigadier?' As he had appeared as Brett Vion. Now this did cause confusion on stage and it would have been best to quietly take the microphone away from the lad, but it was left with him that left a uncomfortable few minutes.

I think that when these things are mentioned they should have a bit of context added to them, otherwise it's easy to jump onto the Moffat bashing band wagon without knowing the full facts. I read about it at the time and it was said by people there that the lad didn't look autistic and people were jeering / cheering over him as he tried to explain himself couldn't really be heard as he was trying to explain his condition. As I said above though, the situation was lept on by some fans as yet another stick to try and beat Moffat with without showing or knowing the full facts.
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A couple of things have occurred to me as well regarding Moff and this incident. First is, he's obviously not afraid to put himself in the firing line by having live Q&A sessions like this. Both he and RTD know what fans can be like and Moff wins here in some ways being the braver of the two.

The other thing is that he might even have the attitude that he wasn't treating the lad differently (ie. special treatment) by softening up his reaction.

I don't regard myself as a 'Moff basher', for reasons I've already stated. There's way too much of this stuff on the 'net. He does frustrate me of course with some of his stunts, but after all's been said, I'm afraid he's the current head honcho and he can do what he likes, as is his right.
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Finally got a chance to continue watching, with AMY'S CHOICE.

Rather a change in tone for this episode. I wouldn't say I disliked it, although it's the kinda of story that is a bit less excited to rewatch once you've seen it once and know who the 'Dream Lord' is and which is the reality and which the dream.... the whole "which one does Amy fancy?" thing verges on getting a bit tedious in my book, especially as one half of it (Rory) continues to be a rather un-credible Stan Laurel figure...
I think the worst aspect is not really the fault of the episode itself, but simply that here is the first time Rory dies. :lol: I think he's going to die at least twice more this season, if memory serves me, and this got very tiresome indeed, totally undermining the drama of someone dying, by just bringing them back to bloody life again 5 mins later.
In this instance, he comes back to life because "it was only a dream", ho hum.

One thing I thought about the TARDIS set was that whilst it "looks lovely", and all the frosting was nice, there is something about the arbitrary silliness of the kitchen utensils and random bric-a-brac that begins to undermine the credibility of it for me as an actual time machine - I'd prefer a *little* more attempt for the Doctor to give us a bit of bafflegab about what he's doing, instead of just blatently flailing at random switches with no pretence that it means anything at all. It begins to get a bit like bands miming on Top of the Pops and just blatently spoiling the illusion by dancing on their keyboard or licking their guitar or something.

Still, it wasn't a bad episode, all the same. I guess its nearest antecedent was the Celestial Toymaker, and it was probably better than that!
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I remember at the time some surprisingly rough treatment of the old folks. But definitely one of the better episodes.
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yeah Rory's has to batter one little old lady, and the Doctor smashes some off a house or something.
The CGI nasty things in their mouths is a little repetitious of the CGI teeth in their mouths from 'The Eleventh Hour', I fear... But hey, "it was only a dream" anyway ;)
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I thought AC was one of the best episodes of New Who. My one regret is that it was only some pollen or something when the Dream Lord could have been an occasional recurring foe (the NuHu equivalent of the Master of the Land of Fiction perhaps).
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yeah, the "oh, it was only some magic pollen" thing at the end was a bit unsatisfying, in my opinion. I mean the whole story was literally "...and then they Wide Awake Club up and it was only a dream! The End." That's the kind of thing you write in primary school when you're 7. :geek:
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THE HUNGRY CATERPILLAR ... COLD TEA
Hmmm, Chris Chinball is back with one of these fanboy-franchise "let's revive an old monster" stories.
I can't say I was hugely enamoured with this pair of episodes. Ultimately it struck me as a story we've had told before, only better.
Matt Smith's performance is great, with the lines he's given, same for Amy... but the writing is not the best. Basically the Doctor comes across as a bit of an over-eager naïve child. Every single thing he tries to do either goes wrong or people just basically ignore him and do the opposite. The day is only really saved by the decent Silurians themselves. The Doctor's whole "share the planet" thing is hopelessly naïve, and Amy and the geologist lady's conference with the Silurian leader about it is ridiculous.
Having Amy's character be "plucky" and "wry in the face of danger" is all very well, but there are several times in these episodes where it's just descending into some kind of 'Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure' farce.
The Doctor's continual "best of humanity" spiel just seems badly written and over-blown/over-bearing to me.

The bit where the father has a big scar all the way up his torso because he's been dissected alive is tonally horrible - the Silurian scientist who's meant to have done it is within minutes presents as this really nice benevolent good guy, yet he's supposed to cut people open without anaesthetic?! And then zip them up again so they're basically fine? (futurely-wutery technology-wology, no doubt...)

The main money-shot special effect of the ground swallowing people was not bad, although quite how it really gets them down over 25 miles into specific bits of the city, goodness knows.

But hey, at least Rory dies! AGAIN! YAYYYY!! Let's hope that's the last we've seen of him, eh reader? :lol:
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feline1 wrote:yeah, the "oh, it was only some magic pollen" thing at the end was a bit unsatisfying, in my opinion. I mean the whole story was literally "...and then they Wide Awake Club up and it was only a dream! The End." That's the kind of thing you write in primary school when you're 7. :geek:
Generally true with one or two honourable exceptions.

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By the way, when Rory dies in Cold Blood, WHY DON'T THEY JUST CARRY HIM INTO THE BLOODY TARDIS?!? Instead of standing around wittering while "the light" gets him?! MUPPETS! :x
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