Could someone explain....

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chap with wings
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Why Amy Pond didn't recognise the Daleks, the explanation passed me by.
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It passed me by too :oops:
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Is it a timey wimey thing?
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LizR
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For me, this finale was split down the middle. On the one hand it had some good emotional moments, it had Matt Smith still being a joy to behold, it had young Amelia, and it wasn't a load of flashy nonsense like quite a few of the previous finales.

But, for me at least, it didn't make a jot of sense.

I can only assume Amy didn't remember the Daleks because the events in question had been removed from history.

...or something.
chap with wings
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So if the events of Journeys End have been erased, where does that leave Donna and the spare Ten?
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LizR
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chap with wings wrote:So if the events of Journeys End have been erased, where does that leave Donna and the spare Ten?
Also erased from history, I assume. I don't think this erasing business is a particularly good idea myself, although obviously that's what was supposed to have happened in "Genesis", and in the Time War . . . but it puts the whole thing on what feels like very shaky foundations. I do hope Moffat intends to, in some sense, recover more of the past - or at least explain convincingly what the :evil: is going on!
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It seems a highly convenient plot device to tie up any loose ends. They were all wiped out/They all died/I am the last of the race of... What with that and parallel universes every five minutes...
Personally I think that Ecclestons Doctor had to announce that all the Time Lords were extinct bar him (and the Master, as it turned out) simply because the Cardiff production team didn't want any Gallifrey set scenes, particularly those involving doddering old gits wearing that infamous 'head and shoulder' fibre glass adornment!!
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LizR
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It comes a close second to "...and then I Wide Awake Club up" as naff plot devices go, IMHO. (Although that one was used in the last series, too! But rather well...if only the Dream Lord could have been a recurring enemy, rather than a handful of dust...!)

I'm sure RTD wanted to start with a clean slate, hence the Time War. It also gave him the perfect reason to make the Doctor more moody and fragile, which could have been really good.... "it would have worked too, if it wasn't for those pesky scripts." If only he hadn't gone overboard in his usual fashion. RTD seems never to have learned one of the first rules of writing, namely "less is more" (it comes just after "show, don't tell", another one he could do to look into)
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LizR wrote:It comes a close second to "...and then I Wide Awake Club up" as naff plot devices go, IMHO.
I think it worked rather well for Dallas in terms of the rubbish storylines Pam's dream managed to erase, the deaf child, JR being nice to Cliff and Sue Ellen etc..........unfortunately the audience didn't buy it and neither did Knots Landing the spin off from Dallas where Bobby is still dead.

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It worked OK for Lewis Carroll too, but generally I wouldn't recommend it for aspiring writers!
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chap with wings wrote:Why Amy Pond didn't recognise the Daleks, the explanation passed me by.
I thought it was to do with why she also had no memory of her parents and lived in a huge house. The series did make a clear point that Time was being shattered and events being gradually and retroactively erased. The Doctor as a time traveller is outside of the effect but Amy when he met her was a victim of it and unltimatly central to its resolution.

It should have all been tied up better nontheless I agree.
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tony ingram
 
 
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Zenith wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Why Amy Pond didn't recognise the Daleks, the explanation passed me by.
I thought it was to do with why she also had no memory of her parents and lived in a huge house. The series did make a clear point that Time was being shattered and events being gradually and retroactively erased. The Doctor as a time traveller is outside of the effect but Amy when he met her was a victim of it and unltimatly central to its resolution.
Yes, all that was pretty much implicit in the plot, I thought-she didn't remember the Daleks because at that point, the events of Journey's End had been erased from time. Presumably, that will have been rectified now that the cracks have been dealt with and the universe restored.

It should have all been tied up better nontheless I agree.
I don't. I see no reason why we need to be spoonfed details we should be able to work out for ourselves from what's been presented on screen.
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LizR
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tony ingram wrote: I see no reason why we need to be spoonfed details we should be able to work out for ourselves from what's been presented on screen.
I agree......less is more, show don't tell, etc......but there is a fine balance between "Aaaaaah! Why didn't I realise what was going on before?" and "What the %$£%^&* was that supposed to be about?" and I'm not sure that Moffat managed to fall into the former camp, partly because there were some internal inconsistencies*, and partly because I've seen about 10 different explanations of what was going, all from people who claim to have worked it out!

*I can come up with these on request... :D
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LizR wrote:
tony ingram wrote: I see no reason why we need to be spoonfed details we should be able to work out for ourselves from what's been presented on screen.
I agree......less is more, show don't tell, etc......but there is a fine balance between "Aaaaaah! Why didn't I realise what was going on before?" and "What the %$£%^&* was that supposed to be about?" and I'm not sure that Moffat managed to fall into the former camp, partly because there were some internal inconsistencies*, and partly because I've seen about 10 different explanations of what was going, all from people who claim to have worked it out!

*I can come up with these on request... :D
There were people on GB saying "I loved it! What was it all about?" If they couldn't follow it how could they say they loved it? Sherlock had complex stories with complicated explanations but I followed it easily, why couldn't Moffat do the same for Who?
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markhuk
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abominable snowman wrote: There were people on GB saying "I loved it! What was it all about?" If they couldn't follow it how could they say they loved it? Sherlock had complex stories with complicated explanations but I followed it easily, why couldn't Moffat do the same for Who?
Perhaps he feels Dr Who viewers are more able to understand complex storylines than Sherlock viewers
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chesterfield
 
 
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markhuk wrote:
abominable snowman wrote: There were people on GB saying "I loved it! What was it all about?" If they couldn't follow it how could they say they loved it? Sherlock had complex stories with complicated explanations but I followed it easily, why couldn't Moffat do the same for Who?
Perhaps he feels Dr Who viewers are more able to understand complex storylines than Sherlock viewers
:floorroll:
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LizR
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markhuk wrote:
abominable snowman wrote: There were people on GB saying "I loved it! What was it all about?" If they couldn't follow it how could they say they loved it? Sherlock had complex stories with complicated explanations but I followed it easily, why couldn't Moffat do the same for Who?
Perhaps he feels Dr Who viewers are more able to understand complex storylines than Sherlock viewers
Or he feels that they aren't interersted in storylines that make sense, but will settle for a blend of emo moments, returning characters, guest stars and clever quips. After all they watched enough of that sort of thing from the previous showrunner without complaint (yours truly and a few others excepted of course)/
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tony ingram wrote:
Zenith wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Why Amy Pond didn't recognise the Daleks, the explanation passed me by.
Yes, all that was pretty much implicit in the plot, I thought-she didn't remember the Daleks because at that point, the events of Journey's End had been erased from time. Presumably, that will have been rectified now that the cracks have been dealt with and the universe restored.
Yes, that's exactly it, and it served the plot for the season in terms of showing us the audience as well as the Doctor that something was going terribly wrong in the universe. I'm not quite sure why it's that difficult to grasp for everyone.
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LizR
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I think the problem was too much information. In many ways, Moffat's finale was a welcome relief after the relentless dumbing-down and scaling-up that RTD went in for. Yes, we had the big "Rose, I'm coming to get you!" style speech - immediately undercut by a comment to the effect that he'd only done it to keep the enemies squabbling - yes we had a zillion CGIed aliens packed in, collect the complete set! - except that they then disappeared, and left the story back on the small scale: character and puzzle related, and reminding us of one of the most heartbreaking scenes in new Who, little Amy waiting for the Doctor to return.

It's just a shame he had to throw in everything else, including the kitchen sink. The Romans - greatest military machine? What's that about, when one Dalek could exterminate the lot of them? The Pandorica is a prison, no it's a regenerator, no it's a whatever Moffat wants in this scene. The Doctor comes bacn from nonexistence because Amy claps her hands and says she believes in fairies, or something similar. Plastic Rory doesn't catch fire, or wear out....and so on...!
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