THE TIMELESS CHILD REVELATIONS: Do You Accept Them as Canon?

THE TIMELESS CHILD REVELATIONS: Do You Accept Them as Canon?

YES: I have no problem with these additions to the lore.
8
12%
NO CHANCE: Never will I accept this!
32
48%
MAYBE: I'm still on the fence. Let's see what future episodes do with this!
3
5%
WHO CARES: I am done with New Who
23
35%
 
Total votes: 66
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The Ginger Cat
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Nah I'll never accept this Timeless Child tripe as canon.
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Cygnus Prime
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Doctor Who: Every Plot Hole Created By Ridiculous Timeless Child Reveal

Doctor Who's season 12 finale reveals the truth of the long-running Timeless Child mystery, and creates a few plot holes in the TV show's canon.


https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-timel ... lot-holes/


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Cygnus Prime
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THE TIMELESS CHILD REVELATIONS

Currently at number one (just ahead of the scripts/writing and Jodie Whittaker's casting/performance) in our happy go lucky, but ultimately New-Who-Trashing poll...... :?


FUN: The Top 10 Worst Aspects of New Who?:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7627



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LizR
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Cygnus Prime wrote:Doctor Who: Every Plot Hole Created By Ridiculous Timeless Child Reveal
Nice article, though I'd beware of saying that's every plot hole, there are probably more we haven't noticed yet.

"Rory's sonic screwdriver"... :roll:
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Cygnus Prime
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The Timeless Child Doesn't Work (And Here's Why):

The Doctor Who Series 12 finale introduced the idea of The Doctor being the timeless child: a being from another dimension instrumental in the founding of Gallifrey. But as ambitious as this idea may be, it just doesn't work. In this video, we explain why Chris Chibnall's episode 'The Timeless Children' may be detrimental to Doctor Who's future.

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LizR
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Another couple or so more reasons it doesn't work, or at least shouldn't.

1. it makes the Doctor boring. This is the "kryptonite" problem - if you make the central character too special you start having to invent reasons they're still vulnerable. The Doctor as a rogue Time Lord with a moral compass is one thing. The Doctor being special merely for who s/he is, rather than what s/he does, isn't interesting. Keeping the Doctor mysterious was a good move.

2. It also takes away mystery from the Master. Why is s/he so against the Doctor? How can s/he randomly have superpowers to destroy Gallifrey and bring in Cybermen for no obvious reason? These are more godlike powers, making the Master just a cartoon villain - OK, even more of one - with the same aim as the Daleks, and increasingly the Cybermen it seems, of wiping out everything else. Making all the baddies interchangeable also isn't a good move.

3. The Doctor hardly does anything sensible throughout the story, and blithely accepts a sacrifice to save herself despite apparently having infinite regenerations (see above) and hence not actually being at risk. Also her idea of sorting out the threat of the Lone Cyberman is to travel to when there are hardly any humans left, park the TARDIS unfeasibly far away, and generally balls things up just to give us a story. it's almost like Chibnall wanted a female Doctor so he could make her completely useless, except he clearly thinks she isn't. So it's just bad writing.
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The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

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A tactful John Nathan Turner on Chibnall's Series 12 Finale "THE TIMELESS CHILDREN":


"I know that Andrew Cartmell wanted to reveal a few secrets, but I'm a great believer in keeping some of the mystery. If you have a character that you know enough about but not all, it can be dangerous to start filling in the blanks, and I think that speculative feeling from people who are into the show is one of it's appealing factors."


From a SCI FI NOW Magazine interview.



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Ex-Doctor Who boss Steven Moffat defends the twists in Jodie Whittaker’s The Timeless Children
“Doctor Who never fits!” the former showrunner tells us – and reveals that he never gave up on the Morbius Doctors

Doctor Who series 12 finale The Timeless Children was absolutely full of shocking revelations for Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor, most notably the twist that the Doctor had a whole series of lives we hadn’t previously known about.

Despite a similar idea being posited in classic Tom Baker episode The Brain of Morbius (with the ‘Morbius Doctors’ apparently confirmed in the finale as well) it’s fair to say the idea was fairly controversial with fans – but ex-showrunner Steven Moffat doesn’t agree, telling RadioTimes.com he thinks it fits perfectly with the series’ inconsistent past.

“Who says what’s canon?” Moffat told us. “One episode the show says that [William Hartnell is] the First Doctor, another episode he’s not.”

Want to Vworp your way to a galaxy’s worth of Doctor Who content?

Notably, he explained, in early episodes fans could read between the lines to believe that Patrick Troughton’s Second Doctor was familiar with the regeneration process, despite later stories suggesting he was only the second body the Doctor had ever changed into.

“The big [plot hole] that no-one ever mentions is in [1966 episode] The Power of the Daleks, just to get nerdy,” he said.

“The Doctor talks as if he’s done this before. The first time it happens, he wanders around that first episode behaving as if, ‘Och my old body wore out, I got a new one.’

“He does not behave as if it’s his first time. And later on it’s retconned into the idea that it was the first time. But that doesn’t fit.

“Doctor Who never fits!” he laughed. “None of it fits together if you really look at it. Why would it? It’s made by teams and teams of different people who never ever met.

“So I’m perfectly happy with all of that, it’s great fun.”



Previously, Moffat had told RadioTimes.com that he’d been disappointed by the Morbius Doctors’ removal from canon as a child – so was he happy to see them reinstated in The Timeless Children?

Well, it turns out that was actually a bit of a clue that Moffat knew what Whittaker’s Doctor was about to find out…

“I’m not daft, I’d guessed where that was going at that stage,” Moffat laughed. “Even by then, I figured they were going to do something with that.

“I’m not sure I ever completely decanonised them in my head. I mean, who says?”

Clearly, when it comes to Doctor Who there are better discussions to be had than whether something “fits” within the often contradictory canon. Like, for example, whether Moffat’s latest Doctor Who short story is technically a Doctor Who story at all…

Steven Moffat’s short Doctor Who story The Terror of the Umpty Ums is available to read online now.

Doctor Who returns to BBC One in late 2020/early 2021
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020 ... 8T2BNBQOQ0
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Zarius wrote:
Ex-Doctor Who boss Steven Moffat defends the twists in Jodie Whittaker’s The Timeless Children
“Doctor Who never fits!” the former showrunner tells us – and reveals that he never gave up on the Morbius Doctors

Doctor Who series 12 finale The Timeless Children was absolutely full of shocking revelations for Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor, most notably the twist that the Doctor had a whole series of lives we hadn’t previously known about.

Despite a similar idea being posited in classic Tom Baker episode The Brain of Morbius (with the ‘Morbius Doctors’ apparently confirmed in the finale as well) it’s fair to say the idea was fairly controversial with fans – but ex-showrunner Steven Moffat doesn’t agree, telling RadioTimes.com he thinks it fits perfectly with the series’ inconsistent past.

“Who says what’s canon?” Moffat told us. “One episode the show says that [William Hartnell is] the First Doctor, another episode he’s not.”

Want to Vworp your way to a galaxy’s worth of Doctor Who content?

Notably, he explained, in early episodes fans could read between the lines to believe that Patrick Troughton’s Second Doctor was familiar with the regeneration process, despite later stories suggesting he was only the second body the Doctor had ever changed into.

“The big [plot hole] that no-one ever mentions is in [1966 episode] The Power of the Daleks, just to get nerdy,” he said.

“The Doctor talks as if he’s done this before. The first time it happens, he wanders around that first episode behaving as if, ‘Och my old body wore out, I got a new one.’

“He does not behave as if it’s his first time. And later on it’s retconned into the idea that it was the first time. But that doesn’t fit.

“Doctor Who never fits!” he laughed. “None of it fits together if you really look at it. Why would it? It’s made by teams and teams of different people who never ever met.

“So I’m perfectly happy with all of that, it’s great fun.”



Previously, Moffat had told RadioTimes.com that he’d been disappointed by the Morbius Doctors’ removal from canon as a child – so was he happy to see them reinstated in The Timeless Children?

Well, it turns out that was actually a bit of a clue that Moffat knew what Whittaker’s Doctor was about to find out…

“I’m not daft, I’d guessed where that was going at that stage,” Moffat laughed. “Even by then, I figured they were going to do something with that.

“I’m not sure I ever completely decanonised them in my head. I mean, who says?”

Clearly, when it comes to Doctor Who there are better discussions to be had than whether something “fits” within the often contradictory canon. Like, for example, whether Moffat’s latest Doctor Who short story is technically a Doctor Who story at all…

Steven Moffat’s short Doctor Who story The Terror of the Umpty Ums is available to read online now.

Doctor Who returns to BBC One in late 2020/early 2021
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020 ... 8T2BNBQOQ0

Jeez :roll: The reason why 'Doctor Who never fits' as Moffat says, is because inept producers have steam-rollered all over it with no-one else around them to rein them in.

And what is he on about with the regeneration from Hartnell to Troughton? 'He does not behave like it's his first time'. Probably because the Doctor would've been brought up to accept regeneration as a way of life, like a snake sheds it skin without lying there for hours crying "*@#-, what just happened there??!!"

But, Moffat's answer is that of course it's proof positive that he must've changed stacks of times previously. Bravo! :x

As for Terror Of The Umpty-Ums??! Give me a break.
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If I respected Chibnall and co for being amazing storytellers providing us with exciting adventures with an engaging and mysterious Doctor and companions we cared about then I might have time to invest in this crap.

Whatever he does now his legacy will always be this bullsh*t.

I can't be arsed to get out of my chair to walk with this, never mind run with it.

(I confess, I knew something had happened that upset folk but I've only read what happened in the episode yesterday! I can't bring myself to watch the actual 'drama')

Voted 'Done with this'.
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LizR
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Yartek wrote:If I respected Chibnall and co for being amazing storytellers providing us with exciting adventures with an engaging and mysterious Doctor and companions we cared about then I might have time to invest in this crap.
Quoted for truth.
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I am more willing to accept this rather than that Moffat Crap about the 'real' reason the Doctor left Gallifrey.
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shuzbot wrote:I am more willing to accept this rather than that Moffat Crap about the 'real' reason the Doctor left Gallifrey.
It was that sort of blundering ret-conning that opened the door for Chibs to stride confidently through.

When we are craving great adventures in Space and Time we are being served up with "Big Ideas" that no one wants or asked for.
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Did The Master LIE About The Timeless Child?:


After that that season finale, I'm sure we all have MANY questions. Let's start with one that not many people are talking about...



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LizR
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Cygnus Prime wrote:
After that that season finale, I'm sure we all have MANY questions. Let's start with one that not many people are talking about...
Hey, I talked about it :)
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Moffat and RTD will always defend their mate's actions because they all subscribe to (literally) anything can happen in Who without even the slightest boundary or framework, and think its a hoot to throw everything up in the air and see where it lands. I mean it's just a laff innit? They all piss in the same pot.
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For people who purport to be big fans of the programme they do seem to want to change an awful lot of it.
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Someone's nailed and hammered together a complete timeline for the Doctor....

A bit of a ram-packed video discussing the entire timeline of the Doctor from Doctor Who. All the way from being the Foundling to being portrayed by Jodie Whittaker in Series 12... and beyond that!



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Cygnus Prime wrote:Someone's nailed and hammered together a complete timeline for the Doctor....
It's a well put together video, but I think it shows how utterly convoluted the Doctor's timeline has become with this Timeless Child nonsense. Particularly when he goes into explaining why he's calling Hartnell's incarnation the First Doctor.
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