"IF IT AIN'T ON THE PAGE!": Is It Jodie or Is It the Scripts?

What is the Main Failing of This Era?

JODIE'S PERFORMANCE: It's simply bad. (Don't blame the side-issue of good/bad writing! She'd make a hash of the greatest scripts!)
2
4%
THE SCRIPTS/STORIES: They suck! (I pity poor, well cast Jodie, stuck with this lame material.)
9
19%
BOTH: (Incurably bad Jodie and incurably bad scripts. Equally terrible - and well-matched!)
31
65%
NEITHER: This era works and both scripts/stories and actress are doing okay/fine.
6
13%
 
Total votes: 48
User avatar
Cygnus Prime
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8654
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:12 pm
Contact:

Image

Image






If one takes the view that this era falls short, then what is to blame?

Is it the failing performance of the central actress?

Or the material she has been given in the form of scripts and storylines?

Could it be both?


Or is there actually nothing wrong with this era and both actress and scripts are fine?







User avatar
shuzbot
 
 
Posts: 13762
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:42 pm
Location: Timbuktu
Contact:

She may not be the best actor or actress we ever see in the role, but the scripts are always more important. I would rather Chibnall went, but he seems to be getting his feet under the table and setting up the next series. He will keep Jodie, no doubt. I also think the next one will be a woman if he is still in charge. Does anyone reckon he will try and break Moffat's score of, how many years was it? :?

Oh yes, far too many...
chap with wings
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3651
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:51 am
Location: Colwyn Bay, North Wales
Contact:

I think Jodie is doing an excellent job as The Doctor, whilst the series is not perfect it has its highs and lows like any other series and is a huge improvement from last year. Problem I see is too many lead characters - Bradley Walsh as sole companion would work a lot better ans the other two are just a waste of time and there is just not enough for 3 supporting characters to do - they had this issue in the Davison era with twice as long per story and even in the Hartnell era they sometimes vanished for episodes at a time.

For what its worth I thought "It Takes You Away" last year was a classic, its currently my 2nd favourite story ever and I loved it so much I got a quote from it as a tattoo. the rest apart from maybe Demons of the Punjab were workmanlike but not exceptional, fast food TV with little or no rewatch value, this year has been a big step up adding to the mythos and the legend of the show.
"It can become a kind of franchise where it's not a real character at all, but just an amalgam of elements that people think are Doctor Who: a scarf, a bow tie... I wanted to be the actual Doctor Who." - Peter Capaldi

Follow me on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/BlogFinish

My Big Finish Review Archive is here - http://blogfinishplanetmondas.blogspot.co.uk/
Rubbernecking
 
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 pm
Contact:

It could be a good reason to post interviews where Jodie says how she developed her character, but I think Jodie just not doing it Doctor enough. This series still huge improvement and last few episodes Whittaker's got closest yet. But Arachnids In The UK. So many things have happened since that other Doctor's wouldn't have let happen. If that's the point of this Doctor, then inconsistentcy is a characteristic?
And agree Jodie more Doctory in her interviews! If I ever get back into conventions (more the lack of interest than money) then Jodie would probably be the most entertaining and pleasant to talk to. Which given how accomodating previous Doctor Who actors have been etc.
User avatar
Bowtiesarecool
Former Team Member
Former Team Member
Posts: 5459
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:13 pm
Location: Trenzalore

As soon as she was cast, I bailed out watching the show and thank god. It seems that I dodged a bullet there. 8-)
The Doctor died with Capaldi. The Chibnall era is non-canon.

There are no Doctors before William Hartnell.

Without respect, we reject.

#NotmyDoctor
User avatar
Cygnus Prime
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8654
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:12 pm
Contact:

Rubbernecking wrote:It could be a good reason to post interviews where Jodie says how she developed her character, but I think Jodie just not doing it Doctor enough. So many things have happened since that other Doctor's wouldn't have let happen. If that's the point of this Doctor, then inconsistentcy is a characteristic?
And agree Jodie more Doctory in her interviews!.

There was this October 2018 interview where Jodie was quizzed about what her Doctor was like:


Quoted part starts at 3:20 in video.....


__________________________________________________________________________________________________


PRESENTER: What's she like? What is your Doctor like?

JODIE: The Doctor, in itself, has these, y'know, kind of character traits throughout, but I think the thing I wanted to bring was a....

I love the child-like energy you have when you're around children that lack... that don't have necessarily the restrictions of social etiquette yet, 'cause they're not self-conscious enough to have it and I love that.

And I love the idea that every new thing to learn can be a wonder, rather than a fearful thing, which is quite human and very adult, to walk, y'know, particularly into a dark cave and go (grimaces) "It's dark!", whereas potentially a child would run in and try and scrabble on the floor, look at the roof and that kind of enjoyment of the unknown.

But the Doctor's such a fascinating character ' cause you can.... there's no rules.

One episode might require you to be fearful and you react a certain way. Next episode where you have fear, it's a completely different reaction.

PRESENTER: Well, you are an alien.

JODIE: I know. With two hearts no less! I'm so unqualified. The woman bit, whatever! I've got two hearts; I'm an alien: that's the bit! (Laughing)


User avatar
DSJR
 
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:12 pm
Location: Suffolk Coastal
Contact:

I voted both. She's just not strong enough in the first place and this is made worse by muddled scripts and the odd good guest cast member who acts her off the screen in my opinion. having said that, I feel she's rarely given the chance to properly 'lead' the story. Up against the boldest of her predecessors (no, not gurning loon Tennant, but the likes of Tom at his peak and Pat for his cheeky subtlety tinged with sadness sometimes), she's a hopeless and shallow 'TV actress acting by numbers' in my book.
User avatar
Cygnus Prime
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8654
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:12 pm
Contact:

Image



"Destined to be an utterly iconic Doctor" they said...

"Aced it in her audition, not just technically, but with the powerful female life force she brings to the role" they said....

"Not just a talented actor, but she has a bold and brilliant vision for her Doctor!" they said....


They said a lot of stuff back then. :?



Image


Even Jodie had things to say to people who had dared to criticise her casting.





Has she really yet delivered on the BBC's bold claims about her iconic stature in the role though?

Or was even a "bold and brilliant" Whittaker Doctor simply no match for a lousy team of writers? :?

.
User avatar
LizR
Irony Maiden
Irony Maiden
Posts: 20960
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:01 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

chap with wings wrote:I think Jodie is doing an excellent job as The Doctor, whilst the series is not perfect it has its highs and lows like any other series and is a huge improvement from last year. Problem I see is too many lead characters - Bradley Walsh as sole companion would work a lot better ans the other two are just a waste of time and there is just not enough for 3 supporting characters to do - they had this issue in the Davison era with twice as long per story and even in the Hartnell era they sometimes vanished for episodes at a time.

For what its worth I thought "It Takes You Away" last year was a classic, its currently my 2nd favourite story ever and I loved it so much I got a quote from it as a tattoo. the rest apart from maybe Demons of the Punjab were workmanlike but not exceptional, fast food TV with little or no rewatch value, this year has been a big step up adding to the mythos and the legend of the show.
I agree that ITYA was good, although I wouldn't make it my second favourite ever (even in New Who) by several light years. The main issue IMHO is the showrunner. All his stories have been weak - badly paced, plotted, characterised, lacking in tension and preachy - as has his decision to have so many companions. It's hard to be sure whether casting Jodie was also a bad decision on his part. I don't personally think she's doing an excellent job - she seems to mainly be eccentric / daft, which is only half the Doctor's character at best, and her sudden lapse into extreme social awkwardness wasn't just bad writing, she might have salvaged something from that if she'd been a better actor (unless that was directed in such a way that she had no choice).

I don't think three companions was a problem in the Hartnell era, as the stories were longer (and generally better structured), allowing for subplots and situations being developed more naturally, according to the motives of the characters involved. With 45 minute stories and writing that doesn't give them more than superficial characterisation, things are rather different now.
User avatar
LizR
Irony Maiden
Irony Maiden
Posts: 20960
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:01 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

PRESENTER: Well, you are an alien.

JODIE: I know. With two hearts no less! I'm so unqualified. The woman bit, whatever! I've got two hearts; I'm an alien: that's the bit! (Laughing)
Can anyone translate this answer into something that makes sense?
User avatar
Cygnus Prime
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8654
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:12 pm
Contact:

If it is the scripts I think Jodie still loses points for not knowing crud when she reads it, thus making her complicit in her own failure. :?

JODIE: You’ve just got to tell the stories you want to tell.

Under the leadership with the writers and with [showrunner] Chris Chibnall, we feel like we’re in very safe hands.

We’re guided from the point of view of one of the biggest Doctor Who fans I know.

So Jodie seems to happily have no problem with scripts that arguably haven't helped her cause, haven't allowed her to ace it on screen, either technically or with her powerful female life force, or allowed her to pursue her bold and brilliant vision - or moved her any nearer to her destiny as an utterly iconic Doctor.

Which is a bit of a shame.

For all his overbearing faults, at least Tom knew "whippetsh*t" when he read it. :lol:
User avatar
The Ginger Cat
Site Manager
Site Manager
Posts: 11823
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:39 pm
Location: Hell
Contact:

From what little I've seen, I'd say both. Weak actress, weak scripts.
User avatar
lordnellie
 
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:41 pm
Contact:

Personally i think Ms. Whittaker has been excellent in every other role i've seen her in, putting in an often subtle and nuanced performance. However, for Who she has decided to 'play it big'; this in itself is not the problem and certainly not a precedence but the scripts have struggled to balance this with any real depth or weight that the character needs.

I've quite enjoyed the romp of it all but there has only really been a couple of moments where Jodie truly felt like The Doctor and far too many moments where the Doctor has been woefully out of character.
MRBLOBBY786
 
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:22 pm
Contact:

While Series 11 had awful scripts, the ones for Series 12 are a little better however, my opinion on Jodie has not changed. It's not a question of wheather she's a good actress (I've seen good performances from her in other stuff) but she just simply isn't right for the part. Look at Sylvester McCoy for example, he wasn't that great of an actor, but there was something about him that made him believable in the role. I think all the actors in the past had that something but Jodie just doesn't.
User avatar
darnall42
 
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:19 am

Definetly both ,Whittaker is miscast in the role and lacks gravitas ,but even the other Nu Who doctors would suffer in the chibnall era due to the dire scripts
User avatar
LizR
Irony Maiden
Irony Maiden
Posts: 20960
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:01 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

I think what she doesn't have is the mystery or mystique. Tom could appear mysterious offering someone a jelly baby. Jodie just appears daffy.
User avatar
'teleportNOW!'
 
 
Posts: 5985
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

I think the scripts are often bad, but a charismatic actor can still make the show watchable even with a rubbish script - we have scores of past episodes over the past 50 years that prove this point. I'm afraid Jodie is not in that category - her performance and delivery are routinely making things worse.

One thing for me is that she really cannot seem to do humour: so much of her entire performance is gormless dizziness... this is presumably supposed to be 'amusing' but it's so pervasive and lacking in genuine wit that I just never find it 'funny' - and moments which *should* be leavened by real humour just never achieve a punchline.
User avatar
shuzbot
 
 
Posts: 13762
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:42 pm
Location: Timbuktu
Contact:

'teleportNOW!' wrote:I think the scripts are often bad, but a charismatic actor can still make the show watchable even with a rubbish script - we have scores of past episodes over the past 50 years that prove this point.
And then we have Underworld, The Krotons and so many others :lol:
User avatar
StarQuake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1377
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:20 pm
Contact:

Hey, The Krotons is really good fun.
"Brace yourself for disappointment." - ericthehalfabee
User avatar
Cygnus Prime
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8654
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:12 pm
Contact:

Krotons was the first time I saw Patrick Troughton's Doctor move. :lol:


The "Five Faces of Doctor Who" Season (1981):

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7521


So for that reason alone, it holds a place in my heart.

I do think that Patrick, the genius actor, was able to make any material watchable.

Not so much Jodie; except if one wishes to watch an acting car-crash with morbid fascination. :?


Just imagine what Patrick would have done with this scene (not that I would have wished Chibnall's writing inflicted on him; But Patrick would have still come through with the goods, unlike Whittaker.):


Post Reply

Return to “The Whittaker Era”

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests