Rate “The Ghost Monument”

Rate “The Ghost Monument”

10
4
3%
9
6
4%
8
18
13%
7
18
13%
6
18
13%
5
17
12%
4
6
4%
3
7
5%
2
7
5%
1
42
29%
 
Total votes: 143
Rob Mammone
 
 
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I thought ep.2 was pretty good. Marginally better than episode 1.

Yaz still has very little to do, but likely that will be rectified over the next couple of weeks.

Ryan - not so sure how good the actor is.

Graham - best thing in the episode. His chat with Ryan in the boat and the last line highlight of the episode.

Whitaker - still feeling her way into the role - some duff lines and moments, but overall, I think she's getting there.

Cinematography top notch, music at last in the background and very effective. Titles reasonable.

If Chibnall still claims there's no arc to this season, I don't think so!
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lepter
 
 
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Darren Lake wrote:Looked great but that's about it. The story was dull and not a million miles away from last weeks' ideas; dialogue was cringeworthy; sniper bots who couldn't shoot themselves in the foot; more morals than a particularly preachy episode of Inspector Gadget (Inspect Her Gadget?) and the most pathetic 'enemy' the show has thrown up for a while. And on top of all that, JWs voice goes right through me.

As for the peripherals, the new titles are naff, theme is awful and the incidental music is so basic it might as well have been composed/ performed by Ed Balls!

But, even after all that, it's still better than anything Moffat poisoned my eyes with over the last 7 years.
Oh yeah...forgot the opening sequence. A swirling vortex of vomited chocolate milkshake as filmed from inside a toilet. What were they thinking?
whois007
 
 
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Overall, it sounds like what I feared could be a problem is a problem... the writing.

It doesn't sound like anybody's taking anything seriously....again. I know Classic WHO wasn't the best always in that regard. But those episodes were rightly considered crap. Taking things seriously doesn't mean speech-ifying. You just have to make sure characters react believably based on what we know about them.

Do you think the show as it stands now could do an episode like Inferno or Pyramids of Mars?
Darren Lake
 
 
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lepter wrote:
Darren Lake wrote:Looked great but that's about it. The story was dull and not a million miles away from last weeks' ideas; dialogue was cringeworthy; sniper bots who couldn't shoot themselves in the foot; more morals than a particularly preachy episode of Inspector Gadget (Inspect Her Gadget?) and the most pathetic 'enemy' the show has thrown up for a while. And on top of all that, JWs voice goes right through me.

As for the peripherals, the new titles are naff, theme is awful and the incidental music is so basic it might as well have been composed/ performed by Ed Balls!

But, even after all that, it's still better than anything Moffat poisoned my eyes with over the last 7 years.
Oh yeah...forgot the opening sequence. A swirling vortex of vomited chocolate milkshake as filmed from inside a toilet. What were they thinking?
Agreed.
Rob Mammone
 
 
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whois007 wrote:Overall, it sounds like what I feared could be a problem is a problem... the writing.

It doesn't sound like anybody's taking anything seriously....again. I know Classic WHO wasn't the best always in that regard. But those episodes were rightly considered crap. Taking things seriously doesn't mean speech-ifying. You just have to make sure characters react believably based on what we know about them.

Do you think the show as it stands now could do an episode like Inferno or Pyramids of Mars?
Probably. But then it's not 1970, is it.
Have a listen to 42 to Doomsday, a new podcast hosted by me and Mark. We chat about Doctor Who. Hardly innovative, but lots of fun (hopefully!)

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Rob Ocelot
 
 
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Well, we could have done a lot worse than a straight-up straightforward "We have to get from Point A to Point B because of the MaGuffin" story in the Classic Who mould. I appreciate that Chibnall didn't make the story more complicated than it needed to be (unlike the Moff). Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a rather obvious Chekov's Gun... but it's something NuWho has been sorely missing because the new writers get it in their heads there's something wrong with traditional story elements and mechanics and somehow you have to be clever to keep it fresh. There's a reason why these kinds of tropes have been around since humans were banging rocks together -- they are effective and they successfully convey ideas quickly without having to reinvent (or rewrite) the wheel.

Likewise, I felt Jodie was channeling Tennant in her delivery and emphasis which isn't unwelcome. I don't particularly like it when they try too hard to make a new Doctor so different from their predecessors they lose sight of what makes the character work. Jodie seems to be settling in.

I was kind of underwhelmed by the new TARDIS interior. It's not horrible but there's something off about it. It seemed a little unoriginal (a little too much RTD, and I tend to dislike the 'inside of the police box view' esthetic of the new series) and the lighting needs to be turned up a bit -- I suspect improving the lighting will expose some of the corners they cut to save production costs.

Ladders are apparently the new corridors. Well, at least for Ryan it is.

The companion dynamic is fascinating to watch... it's like a mirror of the Hartnell-era TARDIS crew, with a budding romance between the younger cast and Graham being the level-headed logical one. They also answer one of my biggest nitpicks with the opening epsiode seemingly ignoring the (new series) canon of both the TARDIS and the Doctor needing to be present for telepathic translation to work.

The incidental music was great. The theme music is growing on me and I like that you can hear bits of Derbyshire-Granger in there. Keeping the Classic Who cliffhanger sting is A++, if it isn't broken it doesn't need fixing.

The visuals of the title sequence are... erm... too busy and unfocused and that's being generous. It kind of looks like someone took the films for the Pertwee credits, set them ablaze and then vomited on them to put the fire out. You can see what they were trying to do with it but it just doesn't come together. It's still miles ahead of the "travelling through someones digestive tract to the theme of the X-files" garbage of the early Matt Smith era (or any of the Smith titles for that matter) but that's a pretty easy race to win. I don't think the new series has bested the original RTD titles. They got it right the first time.

So, overall I liked this one a little better than the opener.
8/10
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Hartnell's Wig
 
 
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ericthehalfabee wrote:
Hartnell's Wig wrote:
LizR wrote:
tony ingram wrote:The actual story last night was marginally better than last weeks, but I'm sorry, Whittaker just irritates me every second she's on screen.
Have you tried taking antihistamines?
AntiHERstamines.

Get with the times, please :)
Goodness. Take that joke back to the drawing board I reckon :lol:

(The poem OTOH was wonderful :) )
Thank you. Rhythmically it was based on that old favourite

Fatty and skinny
Went to bed
Fatty blew off
And skinny was dead

:D
The key to usable HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is distinguishing the real, highly placed sources from the bullsh*tting wannabes who pretend they’re highly placed sources by making sh*t up
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LizR
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So I've had time to reflect and despite really, really wanting to like this, and still liking some aspects, other things that whizzed overhead at the time have come home to roost.

It's about the Doctor. I thought she really hit the bullseye in a Matt Smith type of way in TWWFTE, with the exception of a lack of gravitas, and I was hoping for things to improve on that front.

But Chibnall seems to be heading the OTHER WAY, which is not good news. So the Doctor is now apologising for stuffing up - several times - and when the TARDIS fails to materialise, giving up - at least until the [s]companions[/s] friends pat her on the head and say there, there?

Sorry, but - even with allowance for the regeneration - that is NOT like the Doctor. If Chibnall is going to take her on a trajectory that gets further from the original, rather than closer - and into "I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I also don't have the hearts and stomach of the Doctor" to paraphrase Elizabeth the First - then this is very much the problem I had with this before it started.

Not that the Doctor's a woman, but that she's a woman written by Chris Chibnall.
"[this story] dates from the period in which science fiction fans did not take themselves quite so seriously as nowadays, and those who made religion from an enthusiasm were generally mocked for it." -- Michael Moorcock, from the introduction to "Elric at the End of Time" (1983). Lucky that comment could never be applied to modern SF fans... :roll:

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lepter
 
 
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LizR wrote:So I've had time to reflect and despite really, really wanting to like this, and still liking some aspects, other things that whizzed overhead at the time have come home to roost.

It's about the Doctor. I thought she really hit the bullseye in a Matt Smith type of way in TWWFTE, with the exception of a lack of gravitas, and I was hoping for things to improve on that front.

But Chibnall seems to be heading the OTHER WAY, which is not good news. So the Doctor is now apologising for stuffing up - several times - and when the TARDIS fails to materialise, giving up - at least until the [s]companions[/s] friends pat her on the head and say there, there?

Sorry, but - even with allowance for the regeneration - that is NOT like the Doctor. If Chibnall is going to take her on a trajectory that gets further from the original, rather than closer - and into "I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I also don't have the hearts and stomach of the Doctor" to paraphrase Elizabeth the First - then this is very much the problem I had with this before it started.

Not that the Doctor's a woman, but that she's a woman written by Chris Chibnall.
Was quite pathetic. The doctor would never give up like that and has used guns before. More companion platforming...except the doctor doesn't have companions anymore, just friends.
Question liz....your dark blue...moderators are usually green....chap with wings is red. Is there a hierarchy to the colours?
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Hartnell's Wig
 
 
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It could be worse.

She could be a woman written by Steven Moffat.

OOOOOOOOOh C'Mere, you NAUGHTY old TARDIS and gimme a wet one. C'mon! You know you wanna, Big Boy!
The key to usable HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is distinguishing the real, highly placed sources from the bullsh*tting wannabes who pretend they’re highly placed sources by making sh*t up
Polly
 
 
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Rob Mammone wrote:
Polly wrote:And as for the hype in the general press about how well received it has been so far, what a breath of fresh air, much needed new blood etc. etc., some 3.5 million viewers who watched the season opener were impressed enough not to bother to tune in to episode 2 - some vote of confidence!

Try not to let irrationality get in the way of the facts.
Oh I shan't.... consolidated figures for episode 1) - 10.9m. Overnight for ep 2) 7.1m. Admittedly that's not exactly comparing like with like but there's a 3.8m body of opinion not thinking 'oh great, can't miss it, must tune in on the night next time around. It's also a 3.8m gap that consolidated figures cannot possibly fill....we'll wait and see...
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LizR
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lepter wrote:Question liz....your dark blue...moderators are usually green....chap with wings is red. Is there a hierarchy to the colours?
Yes, we're like the Daleks in that respect. (I'm not sure what it is, mind you.)
"[this story] dates from the period in which science fiction fans did not take themselves quite so seriously as nowadays, and those who made religion from an enthusiasm were generally mocked for it." -- Michael Moorcock, from the introduction to "Elric at the End of Time" (1983). Lucky that comment could never be applied to modern SF fans... :roll:

My crosswords are on my homepage & Android phones - install Alphacross and select "Māyā's Cryptic Puzzles" :D
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LizR
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Hartnell's Wig wrote:It could be worse.
She could be a woman written by Steven Moffat.
:shock: Good point.

Maybe I should have said that I don't mind the Doctor being a woman, but I am a bit leery about control being handed to the writer of "Cyberwoman".
"[this story] dates from the period in which science fiction fans did not take themselves quite so seriously as nowadays, and those who made religion from an enthusiasm were generally mocked for it." -- Michael Moorcock, from the introduction to "Elric at the End of Time" (1983). Lucky that comment could never be applied to modern SF fans... :roll:

My crosswords are on my homepage & Android phones - install Alphacross and select "Māyā's Cryptic Puzzles" :D
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chap with wings wrote:
thecypher wrote:
chap with wings wrote:Very atmospheric, very Hartnell with a plot that made sense and a fair few plot threads left to tantalise. Beautiful TARDIS too. Magic.
Is there a Doctor Who story you don't like? :roll:
In broadcast order and off the top of my head:
The Chase, The Enemy of the World, The Wheel In Space, The Space Pirates, The Monster of Peladon, Masque of Mandragora, Underworld, The Armageddon Factor, Meglos, Arc Of Infinity, Resurrection Of the Daleks, The Two Doctors, Time and the Rani, TV Movie, Fear Her, Voyage Of the Damned, Planet Of the Dead, The Beast Below, Curse Of the Black Spot, Night Terrors, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Journey to the Centre Of the TARDIS, Robot Of Sherwood, Sleep No More.
Classics, every one :floorroll: :roll07:
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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greystone_06
 
 
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I'm not a fan of the title sequence. The arrangement of the theme is insipid. The inside of the TARDIS is hideous. Whittaker would be great as Romana or any other Time Lady... but not the Doctor, I'm afraid. But what the hell, at least the TARDIS exterior is a marked improvement, just a pity the windows are still oversized. Too much to expect it to be modelled on an actual mark 2 met box... It is an improvement on Moffatwho but nothing like what I was hoping for. That said, I've always struggled to reconcile New Who with the proper show. Moffat and Chibnell, two names along with Cartmel that will live in infamy...
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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greystone_06
 
 
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A Disused Yeti wrote:They changed canon by saying she was taught Venusian aikido by nuns and not the monks, like the 3rd Doctor said. Not cool! Obligatory, "I'm a lesbian", insert. wtf
Get with the times! With Chibnell in charge, how could anything positive possibly originate from the male species? I just find it amazing that the Doctor managed to achieve anything in all those years. But then, he had the impossible girl to help him :floorroll:
#William Hartnell will always be the 1st Doctor. The Doctor is male.
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Hartnell's Wig
 
 
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greystone_06 wrote:I'm not a fan of the title sequence. The arrangement of the theme is insipid.
The thing most often mentioned about the original theme tune is how it scared kids, largely down to the bass line. Since it came back, this show has had arrangments that completely get rid of the bass.

Imagine a modern arrangment, with a thumpty thump bass line booming out of a sub-woofer so it goes right through you.

The arrangements since 2005 have lacked balls. They could be used on an ice cream van, most of them.
The key to usable HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is distinguishing the real, highly placed sources from the bullsh*tting wannabes who pretend they’re highly placed sources by making sh*t up
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Polly wrote:
Rob Mammone wrote:
Polly wrote:And as for the hype in the general press about how well received it has been so far, what a breath of fresh air, much needed new blood etc. etc., some 3.5 million viewers who watched the season opener were impressed enough not to bother to tune in to episode 2 - some vote of confidence!

Try not to let irrationality get in the way of the facts.
Oh I shan't.... consolidated figures for episode 1) - 10.9m. Overnight for ep 2) 7.1m. Admittedly that's not exactly comparing like with like but there's a 3.8m body of opinion not thinking 'oh great, can't miss it, must tune in on the night next time around. It's also a 3.8m gap that consolidated figures cannot possibly fill....we'll wait and see...
Waiting and seeing is what you should do. Of course there will be a drop off in the numbers, but using one set of numbers against another, incomplete set of numbers and drawing a conclusion from that is stupid.
Have a listen to 42 to Doomsday, a new podcast hosted by me and Mark. We chat about Doctor Who. Hardly innovative, but lots of fun (hopefully!)

Where you can go to download: http://42todoomsday.hipcast.com/rss/42_to_doomsday.xml

Tweet the hell out of us: https://twitter.com/42TODoomsday

Or visit our blog: http://42todoomsday.wordpress.com

Or spam us at: 42todoomsday@gmail.com
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Scot Ferre
 
 
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It's more important that the share is consistent or that it's not significantly declined. Episode 2's share and placement remains very high for that week.
James P
 
 
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Polly wrote:
Rob Mammone wrote:
Polly wrote:And as for the hype in the general press about how well received it has been so far, what a breath of fresh air, much needed new blood etc. etc., some 3.5 million viewers who watched the season opener were impressed enough not to bother to tune in to episode 2 - some vote of confidence!

Try not to let irrationality get in the way of the facts.
Oh I shan't.... consolidated figures for episode 1) - 10.9m. Overnight for ep 2) 7.1m. Admittedly that's not exactly comparing like with like but there's a 3.8m body of opinion not thinking 'oh great, can't miss it, must tune in on the night next time around. It's also a 3.8m gap that consolidated figures cannot possibly fill....we'll wait and see...
Not everyone has enough time available to tune in on the first airing.
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